Dhoni Vs Gilchrist in ODIs.

[Xuhaib]

Dhoni is arguably the greatest odi cricketer ever.

 

[hang on]

I think it's a given that it's easier to bat during the middle overs of one day cricket. There is hardly any fielding pressure on, unless there's been a dramatic collapse at the top, and the fielding side take the opportunity to put the field back and get through as many overs as possible. It's a stage where there's an unspoken agreement between teams almost, 'you don't hit us for boundaries and we won't try and get you out'.

That's not to cheapen Dhoni's achievements or record, it's just a fact.

thought that it was the other way around and it was easier to score runs at the top of the order what with the fielding restrictions and a new ball etc.

 

[ankitj]

For batting wise, I have never really been that impressed by Dhoni and Gilly is in a totally different league, even at this current time btw.

Not being impressed by Dhoni's batting style and technique is completely understandable. But not being impressed by what he has achieved in ODIs is just denial. Hope you meant the former

 

[honestbharani]

I think it's a given that it's easier to bat during the middle overs of one day cricket. There is hardly any fielding pressure on, unless there's been a dramatic collapse at the top, and the fielding side take the opportunity to put the field back and get through as many overs as possible. It's a stage where there's an unspoken agreement between teams almost, 'you don't hit us for boundaries and we won't try and get you out'.

That's not to cheapen Dhoni's achievements or record, it's just a fact.

I hope this holds true for Bevan Vs Sachin/Richards etc.

 

[honestbharani]

Because my point was that averages are not necessarily a good representation of an ODI player's performances.

Simply because your Clarkes, Dhonis and Husseys often accumulate 40-50 runs with absolutely no risk at all (look at the number of 50s) to defensive fields, often against the weaker parts of the attack. It is not a completely fair representation of their utility to the team.

Now, I think that the gap is rapidly closing because I've seen Dhoni play some spectacular knocks but at this stage I just think that because of the way he dealt with the best bowlers when batting is at its most difficult was a more important contribution to the Australian team.

I would pick Dhoni as my keeper in an ATG side but that's a different question because they aren't on equal playing fields in that respect.

Put it this way, Sparky.. I think Dhoni performs that slight bit better in his role as a finisher than Gilly does in his role as an attacking opener. And as keepers, I think they are even with Dhoni's ability as a leader being a clincher.. And Dhoni has proven himself playing versatile roles than Gilly has done. Its not like we are exactly short of attacking openers who can contribute otherwise to the team as well who have similar records as Gilchrist. I think you would be hard pressed to find another player who can boast of Dhoni's record as a finisher and also bring in a second skill to the game..

 

[Jono]

People speak how Gilchrist plays his way because of who he had to follow.

The same is with Dhoni. He deliberately changed from attacking batsman to accumulator because he had Sehwag, Yuvraj, Yusuf and even Sachin playing shots.

People shouldn't underestimate Dhoni's ability to explode.

 

[Xuhaib]

yeah what HB said Dhoni is arguably the 2nd best finisher ever after Bevan only Hussey comes close just based on that he is a top 25 odi cricketer ever then he brings in a 2nd skill and once you factor in his captaincy he is one off the 3 best odi player off all time, which pains me since his batting is a real eye sore.

 

[honestbharani]

Gilchrist's career has been longer. I'd wait for 3-4 more Dhoni years before making a call. As of right now, Gilchrist's the overall greater ODI cricketer.

I'd pick Dhoni in an AT XI though as it allows me to play Mark Waugh as opener.

Good point reg. their longevity. But Gilly was around for what 11 years and Dhoni has already been around for 8 years?

 

[weldone]

dhoni for an alltime 11. since i would have jayasuriya open with tendulkar. and dhoni would captain, too.

jayasuriya
tendulkar
richards
ponting
abbas
dhoni
bevan
akram
mcgrath
garner
murali

brilliant side this...The only thing I shall be a little worried about is my fifth bowling option on surfaces that don't assist spin.

Otherwise, it's a very good side. Let those people laugh at the choice of Zaheer Abbas who want to. He and Viv were so ahead of the rest of the batsmen in their times that it's not funny. And those who measure Abbas' longevity by the number of ODIs he played are not prudent anyway.

In short, top team...

 

[TumTum]

Clearly I have. Could you explain it again?

Gilly does it more frequently, 1 innings (although a big one) doesn't change that.

 

[Jono]

What is your criteria for a big match?

 

[ankitj]

Gilly does it more frequently, 1 innings (although a big one) doesn't change that.

Yeah, what's the criteria? Half the world may not care for India-Pak matches but they are very high stake matches. Same holds for Ashes.

Secondly, I remember you agreed with me when I said something about how performances in high pressure games isn't such a great measure of greatness. My argument was that if the pressure applies uniformly on players of both sides, than all are equally disadvantaged and noone is playing with special handicap. So I am not sure performing in a match where your opposition is also nervy is a particularly difficult thing.

 

[ankitj]

Gilly does it more frequently, 1 innings (although a big one) doesn't change that.

Also, please produce evidence for that. Not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but want to see some facts to be convinced. You earlier said Gilchrist destroys good fast bowling often but the facts don't support that. You can't make assertions like that without properly backing them up.

 

[Cevno]

Tbf, to Dhoni he averages 83 at a strike rate of 100 at number 3 and 50 opening in 18 matches.

Also 70 at a strike rate of 103.5 at number 4 in 16 matches.

He is perfectly capable of batting at 3 and 4 and being a more aggresive batsman and shown it too in ODI'S.
But the reason he does not consistently is due to the team balance and the other batsman India has.
Both his average and strike rate actually drop when he bats at 5,6 or 7.

To hold that against him is pretty harsh when he is doing that for the team, even though i still rate Gilchrist higher without taking captaincy into account.

 

[TumTum]

Yeah, what's the criteria? Half the world may not care for India-Pak matches but they are very high stake matches. Same holds for Ashes.

Secondly, I remember you agreed with me when I said something about how performances in high pressure games isn't such a great measure of greatness. My argument was that if the pressure applies uniformly on players of both sides, than all are equally disadvantaged and noone is playing with special handicap. So I am not sure performing in a match where your opposition is also nervy is a particularly difficult thing.

I don't remember agreeing with that. In that topic what I probably said is that off-field behavior, personality and fan support has a major part in determining greatness.

Edit: Now that I think about it more carefully I might have said "it's a good point" but not to determine greatness, just generally speaking you have to taken into account nerves of opposition..

Also, please produce evidence for that. Not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but want to see some facts to be convinced. You earlier said Gilchrist destroys good fast bowling often but the facts don't support that. You can't make assertions like that without properly backing them up.

Yeah that isn't what I was saying. What I meant is that Gilchrist can destroy any attack anytime anywhere when it's his day, not saying he's consistent or anything.

I don't really need to bring up facts to prove this, this is common knowledge. (and I can't be stuffed so... )

 

[Bun]

I don't remember agreeing with that. In that topic what I probably said is that off-field behavior, personality and fan support has a major part in determining greatness.

Edit: Now that I think about it more carefully I might have said "it's a good point" but not to determine greatness, just generally speaking you have to taken into account nerves of opposition..



Yeah that isn't what I was saying. What I meant is that Gilchrist can destroy any attack anytime anywhere when it's his day, not saying he's consistent or anything.

I don't really need to bring up facts to prove this, this is common knowledge. (and I can't be stuffed so... )

wow

 

[ankitj]

I don't remember agreeing with that. In that topic what I probably said is that off-field behavior, personality and fan support has a major part in determining greatness.

Edit: Now that I think about it more carefully I might have said "it's a good point" but not to determine greatness, just generally speaking you have to taken into account nerves of opposition..

You are going to hate me for this

 

[Spark]

Yeah that isn't what I was saying. What I meant is that Gilchrist can destroy any attack anytime anywhere when it's his day, not saying he's consistent or anything.

I don't really need to bring up facts to prove this, this is common knowledge. (and I can't be stuffed so... )

Huh?

There are plenty of players who can destroy attacks on their day. What made Gilchrist so good was the fact that he was so consistent.

 

[Bun]

Huh?

There are plenty of players who can destroy attacks on their day. What made Gilchrist so good was the fact that he was so consistent.

if anything shoni of last 3 years have been super consistent.... gilly on the other hand was more sehwag than tendulkar.

 

[Spark]

IIRC Dhoni had been rather meh for quite a while up until the WC Final? Before that he was probably the world's best ODI bat though.