*Official* - India in West Indies

[Flem274*]

No.. My point is different.. I am saying if they can get big money for 6 weeks of work and then catch up with their rest during some other point in the cricket calendar (esp. with some of the weaker teams around), then they are gonna do that.. And my point reg. past cricketers is that if FC offered more money they might well have chosen to play in the FC and rest up during ONE of the many international tours...

That was exactly the point I adressed tbh.

 

[Cevno]

shivfan, I agree with your sentiments in general with regards to the IPL (in a nutshell it is ****), but I disagree they put IPL over their country and that it's all about the money. What we have to understand is there's pressure on the players to play - an obligation if you want. Take Tendulkar, for example. He's the franchise's main attraction. Him not playing would definitely have had an adverse effect on ticket, merchandise sales, etc. Of course, in an ideal world, these players should have said no to the IPL, but unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world.

Also, I am reasonably sure Tendulkar is carrying some sort of niggle/injury. It is totally unlike him to skip a test series - he doesn't even skip Bangladesh tours. The only plausible explanation is that he's carrying some sort of niggle or injury, and that he wants to make sure he's fit in time for the England tour. But yes, he only has himself to blame for that. I don't think he'll last long enough to tour West Indies in 2015 or whatever.

Yep.

The Indian big players specially players like Dhoni and Tendulkar who attract attention and crowds can't miss the IPL and it still remain successful.

Not only monetary reasons but non monetary ones are involved too as i explained earlier in this thread.

If they miss the IPL it becomes less of a attraction for foreign players too and generates less revenue.
And then if it becomes less succesful ,then players like Vijay,Kohli ,Badrinath etc... who have admitted to being benefitted by it and are taking the slots on this tour don't get a chance to improve by playing with the best in the IPL.

Also the vast majority of domestic non india players who get nearly 90% of their yearly income from the IPL(As Dinesh Karthik admitted) don't earn that much too from the IPL as it loses some of its glamour.
Also the board then does not earn so much which it can spend on development of the infrastructure and the game in general.
Not to deny they have commitments to their Franchisees and cities too ,plus are earning a lot of money themselves from it too but that is not the only factor as the bigger players earn more regardless and are less likely to be swayed by monetary factors rather than non monetary factors.

Besides even if there was no IPL ,India would have been playing some cricket regardless and players would have to miss some International series or the other.

With the England tour coming up ,i think this seemed the perfect time to clear injuries,get rest and blood in some players who have been waiting for their chance for a while too.

 

[Flem274*]

International cricket takes precedence over any domestic competition.

If we start letting this go, then the IPL and County Cricket may as well be the premier ICC events.

 

[Blaze 18]

Feel all the Indian posters would be singing a different tune if players were sitting out a series against the top 5 and subsequently lost their #1 position.

It's just an extremely selfish thing to do regardless. Other boards lose out when India sends half teams out.

The players wouldn't dare to do that, trust me. The reaction from the folks back home should be enough to act as a deterrent. England are a much bigger threat to India's ranking than West Indies, and all the players want to make sure they're available for that. Shows the ranking means something to them TBH.

Like I said, I don't really mind them skipping the ODI series seeing as they've just won the World Cup (even if I don't particularly like it), but missing a test series - that too an away one - is stupid. I daresay the players wouldn't have given it a miss if there had been a bigger break between the West Indies and England tours. There's one thing that rankles though : players often complain about too much cricket these days. Playing two months of IPL and then having the gall to come out and say the scheduling is too unforgiving, is laughable.

I was seething a day or two back about these blokes missing out from the series, but now I've decided whatever happens it'll be a good thing for us :

Scenario A : India win with their new players - will show that they've a fair bench strength.
Scenario B : India lose - would be a massive wake up call. Hopefully it'll put an end to the IPL.

 

[GotSpin]

Yep.

The Indian big players specially players like Dhoni and Tendulkar who attract attention and crowds can't miss the IPL and it still remain successful.

Not only monetary reasons but non monetary ones are involved too as i explained earlier in this thread.

If they miss the IPL it becomes less of a attraction for foreign players too and generates less revenue.
And then if it becomes less succesful ,then players like Vijay,Kohli ,Badrinath etc... who have admitted to being benefitted by it and are taking the slots on this tour don't get a chance to improve by playing with the best in the IPL.

Also the vast majority of domestic non india players who get nearly 90% of their yearly income from the IPL(As Dinesh Karthik admitted) don't earn that much too from the IPL as it loses some of its glamour.
Also the board then does not earn so much which it can spend on development of the infrastructure and the game in general.

Besides even if there was no IPL ,India would have been playing some cricket regardless and players would have to miss some International series or the other.

With the England tour coming up ,i think this seemed the perfect time to clear injuries,get rest and blood in some players who have been waiting for their chance for a while too.

Yes it's all well and good for India who have huge resource revenues. But **** the other countries that supply some of the players for your domestic competition.

I'm not aware of the specific financial details, but common sense would suggest that this tour of the West Indies would have been a huge money earner. Won't be as much now since some of the stars are sitting out.

It's just selfish.

 

[Flem274*]

Some people complain there is too much cricket.

Other teams would like to play more than a handful of tests a summer.

 

[Teja.]

It's bad for cricket but you can't blame the cricketers one bit. The cricketers make more money playing one IPL T20 game than they make from the entire WI tour combined.

You may blame the BCCI, The IPL, The cricket boards in general for not paying enough but blaming a professional cricketer for wanting to make multiple times the money he gets from the usual by using his cricketing ability is pretty ridiculous.


Basically, In a hypothetical situation, if Gambhir had to choose between playing the entire IPL(With the HUGE pay-packets) or against England. I'd be pretty sad as an Indian cricket fan if he picks the former but I wouldn't lose any respect for Gambhir or blame him. There's nothing inherently worse about wanting to make money over wanting to play for your country etc. There's nothing more moral or prestigious about the latter without resorting to subjectivity.

 

[Blaze 18]

I'm not aware of the specific financial details, but common sense would suggest that this tour of the West Indies would have been a huge money earner. Won't be as much now since some of the stars are sitting out.

I don't necessarily agree with Cevno's post, but wouldn't the West Indian fans have more interest now that their team has a better chance of winning?

 

[honestbharani]

That was exactly the point I adressed tbh.

No.. coz what I meant is that while they have about 3 or 4 international series a year (tours) there is only 1 IPL.. So they are giving up 1 out of the 3 or 4 so that they can play IPL and earn the sort of money that will help set them and their families up for a number of years... It would be very bad if they were giving their ONLY international commitment in the year for IPL but that is not the case.

 

[Manee]

Funny how that 'lung infection' didn't affect his participation in the IPL....

And apparently that lung infection is expected to last two whole months, to rule Yuvraj out of both Tests and ODIs....

That's one helluva lung infection!

Here's more on Yuvraj....

'When he came to inaugurate Dr Kohli''s clinic, Yuvraj complained of the problems in his lungs and he got tired easily. "Then I told him we will have the test after the inauguration. After the results came in he took it lightly and said he wanted to continue playing," Kohli said. Kohli said he told Yuvraj that he should take the illness seriously and would need two-three weeks rest to recover from it. He then wrote a letter to the BCCI informing about the medical status of Yuvraj, who was earlier named in the ODI squad for the West Indies tour. "This is to inform you that Yuvraj Singh is under my medical care. Presently he is suffering from an upper respiratory infection, with a small patch of pneumonitis in the left lung," Kohli wrote in the letter to the BCCI Secretary N Srinivasan. "He is advised complete rest for about 2-3 weeks along with medical treatment," he said. Acting on the medical report, the Cricket Board selection committee today decided to leave out Yuvraj for the Test tour of West Indies next month while Manoj Tiwary has been named as his replacement for the T20 and ODI series.'

Accidental check-up last week detected Yuvraj illness

So, Yuvraj would've been out for 2-3 weeks, which would make him miss the ODi series, but should've made him available for the Test tour....

But instead he's not playing in either the Tests or the ODIs. I really wonder if the BCCI and Yuvraj would've taken that decision if it was England they were touring, and not the West Indies....

I'm considering my position on the likes of Tendulkar, Gambhir, Sehwag, Dhoni, etc - but I think it is unfair to criticize Yuvraj when it comes to his health and where the details are unclear. 2-3 weeks complete rest may mean 2-3 weeks in bed, he cannot return to international cricket straight away after that, for example.

 

[Flem274*]

No.. coz what I meant is that while they have about 3 or 4 international series a year (tours) there is only 1 IPL.. So they are giving up 1 out of the 3 or 4 so that they can play IPL and earn the sort of money that will help set them and their families up for a number of years... It would be very bad if they were giving their ONLY international commitment in the year for IPL but that is not the case.

That is not what you said at all.

To all those who say "representing the country" and stuff, you think players will still play for the country (and the past guys would have) had the FC been paying more than internationals? It is a very simple question of money..

In any case, I still think it is pretty sad IPL takes precedence over a test series. I can understand it but I am against it.

 

[GotSpin]

I don't necessarily agree with Cevno's post, but wouldn't the West Indian fans have more interest now that their team has a better chance of winning?

When you play the World Champions you want them to send their best team over. Not some B side. It'd be like Australia touring England in the 90s and early 00s and just leaving McGrath and Warne at home because it was too easy. Fans pay to see the best play.


I was also referring to the financial bit in terms of TV viewership

 

[hang on]

think that what's happening is rather distressing but if one were to look at this from the point of view of "does this benefit indian cricket?", then the answer could well be a resounding "yes!" (unless they go and lose the windies series and then to england and lose the number one ranking etc.). since 1) the board's cashcow is unaffected 2) the bench strength of the team is tested (wouldn't have had the opportunity if it had been a 'bigger' tour) and international experience is provided to the untried 3) rest and recuperation for some of the big guns (tendulkar, primarily) is made possible, thus allowing them/him to play on for longer.

 

[Cevno]

Yes it's all well and good for India who have huge resource revenues. But **** the other countries that supply some of the players for your domestic competition.

I'm not aware of the specific financial details, but common sense would suggest that this tour of the West Indies would have been a huge money earner. Won't be as much now since some of the stars are sitting out.

It's just selfish.

Not sure about that.

The TV deals which is main source of revenue would have been agreed earlier and the crowds will be interested more with West Indies having a better chance of winning.

Their would be a marginal effect if any on the sponsorship deals if they have not been done in advance. And even that might not be the case as still India is a big draw no matter who is representing them and this comes after back of a successful World Cup win.

At most the broadcasters can lose the most if there is a loss of interest ,but i think with the timings this tour has here the WI series was not the biggest draw for them in any case.
And having some younger players who are known these days due to the IPL , won't affect there core viewership beyond an extent.

 

[GotSpin]

Not sure about that.

The TV deals which is main source of revenue would have been agreed earlier and the crowds will be interested more with West Indies having a better chance of winning.

Their would be a marginal effect if any on the sponsorship deals if they have not been done in advance. And even that might not be the case as still India is a big draw no matter who is representing them and this comes after back of a successful World Cup win.

At most the broadcasters can lose the most if there is a loss of interest ,but i think with the timings this tour has here the WI series was not the biggest draw for them in any case.
And having some younger players who are known these days due to the IPL , won't affect there core viewership beyond an extent.

Ummm no. Everyone wants to see the best play. It's laughable to think that Tendulkar and co not coming wouldn't have a detrimental effect on the finances for the WICB. They're a big draw.

 

[Manee]

Ummm no. Everyone wants to see the best play.

Agreed. Taylor Vs Tendulkar > Rampaul Vs Mukund

 

[Cevno]

Though i disagree there,as i tend to think for the West Indian crowds it is more about the experience and supporting their team.

But even if that were the case the Crowds contribute the least of the revenue streams,tbh.

 

[GotSpin]

think that what's happening is rather distressing but if one were to look at this from the point of view of "does this benefit indian cricket?", then the answer could well be a resounding "yes!" (unless they go and lose the windies series and then to england and lose the number one ranking etc.). since 1) the board's cashcow is unaffected 2) the bench strength of the team is tested (wouldn't have had the opportunity if it had been a 'bigger' tour) and international experience is provided to the untried 3) rest and recuperation for some of the big guns (tendulkar, primarily) is made possible, thus allowing them/him to play on for longer.

It's pretty much a win-win for India. They'll probably still win the series while resting key players for England

stuff the other countries though

 

[Cevno]

Agreed. Taylor Vs Tendulkar > Rampaul Vs Mukund

They are not selecting Taylor themselves and Rampaul is bowling pretty well at the moment.

Obviously everyone wants to see Tendulkar play every game ,but he is human after all and getting old with Cricket coming up non stop.

The average attendances for IPL games involving him were up 30 to 40% only because of him.
So some of the crowds that wanted to see him ,atleast got their wish.

 

[Manee]

They are not selecting Taylor themselves and Rampaul is bowling pretty well at the moment.

Was a shocking example on my part.

Obviously everyone wants to see Tendulkar play every game ,but he is human after all and getting old with Cricket coming up non stop.

The average attendances for IPL games involving him were up 30 to 40% only because of him.
So some of the crowds that wanted to see him ,atleast got their wish.

Agreed, was just noting about the point about the crowds preferring to see good players rather than a close contest.