Lionel Messi..

[vcs]

Haven't seen the goals in question yet, but saw this article on BBC and, well, it just outright states what many people have been whispering for the last two years.

Barcelona's Lionel Messi was precisely like Diego Maradona at his very best in the 2-0 win at the Bernabeu.

There just isn't any argument anymore. I think it is Pele, Maradona and Messi and, even considering the talents of players like Zidane, those three players are a little bit above the rest.

And that's not some random article from goal.com or something, I think coming from the BBC gives the view a lot of credibility.

What do you think?

EDIT : Would be nice if a mod could add a poll..

 

[Ausage]

Without commenting directly on where Messi belongs in the pecking order, as a general rule with all sports I'm not a big fan of rating players against ATGs before their careers are over. Messi in particular is only 23, there's a huge amount of time for injuries, poor form, failure to win a WC (hint hint) etc to put a shadow over his career.

Just on the WC I think for him to be considered alongside someone like Pele he would need to be in a team that at the very least didn't fail dismally at the WC level. 4-0 drubbings in Quarter Finals are a failure for someone looking to claim to be the greatest player of all time.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, I agree. I also think it's pretty important for a player to succeed in international football to be an ATG. Winning the WC may or may not happen (it depends on a lot of other factors including the rest of the team, manager etc.) but he has to put in a World Cup performance (against a strong side) worthy, in most people's eyes, of being a World Champion.

I find it pretty amazing that he's getting so many superlatives at 23 TBH.

 

[TT Boy]

Haven't seen the goals in question yet, but saw this article on BBC and, well, it just outright states what many people have been whispering for the last two years.



And that's not some random article from goal.com or something, I think coming from the BBC gives the view a lot of credibility.

What do you think?

EDIT : Would be nice if a mod could add a poll..

Not really. The article could have been attributed to Tim Lovejoy considering he also works for the BBC as does Robbie Savage, Mike Parry and lots of other people with zero creditability. It’s not the BBC eulogising over Messi, it is Pat Nevin. Pat’s a good guy though. Always enjoy his work with Stanley Victor Doggymore on C5.

 

[vcs]

Oh, I see. I don't know about the credibility of the pundit in question. I guess you have a point there.

Watched the goal, it was very good, but a tad overhyped. Liked the goal that Thierry Henry scored against Madrid (the year Arsenal made the finals) more. Still, Messi's consistency at his age is frightening.

 

[vcs]

Also, thinking about it, not sure about Zidane being named in that article ahead of the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini etc... as good as Zidane was, I think those guys have a better claim to 3rd spot behind Pele and Maradona.

 

[Uppercut]

I think it's ridiculous to suggest that you can't be one of the best players of all-time if you don't win a World Cup. If he had happened to be born Spanish, he probably would have. Would having a different nationality make him a better player?

I can't compare him to Pele or Maradona, but he's definitely the best player I've ever seen. Even Zidane was never this good. I don't see why his age is of any relevance. If he's insanely good, he's insanely good. And he is.

 

[Nate]

Would never succeed on a cold night in England imho.

 

[sledger]

With regards to above points, Zidane > Platini by far, Cruyff as well. Beckenbauer mayber less so, but still ahead. Imo.

 

[Ikki]

It's way too early. Fantastic player, but I would refrain from making such claims until he is in his late 20s early 30s.

Personally, I don't consider great attacking players as the best players of all time. I find I tend to rate players like Matthaus, Gerrard, Beckenbauer, Edwards, etc (all-round players, usually CMs) more valuable and hence better players.

 

[Pothas]

It's way too early. Fantastic player, but I would refrain from making such claims until he is in his late 20s early 30s.

Personally, I don't consider great attacking players as the best players of all time. I find I tend to rate players like Matthaus, Gerrard, Beckenbauer, Edwards, etc (all-round players, usually CMs) more valuable and hence better players.

He is joking right?

 

[Uppercut]

Use of the word "like" meant I could let that one slide. Maybe he was talking about some players that were like Gerrard, only far far better. Like Zidane.

 

[Ikki]

He is joking right?

No, I am not. I'm well aware I'd be in the minority but in football I consider complete players like Gerrard, Matthaus, etc, above the likes of Zidane, Ronaldinho, C.Ronaldo, etc.

Use of the word "like" meant I could let that one slide. Maybe he was talking about some players that were like Gerrard, only far far better. Like Zidane.

No, I don't consider Zidane an all-round player at all and certainly wouldn't consider him a player like Gerrard. Even in attack, for a player of his repute, his numbers do not stack up well against the best. Suffice to say I think he is a bit overrated.

 

[marc71178]

I suspect that even if you were in the Gerrard or Matthaus household you'd still be in a minority of 1 to think that.

 

[Uppercut]

Ikki, don't even know what to say to that.

 

[Ikki]

Well, say why you disagree and I'll say why I feel differently.

 

[grecian]

I think it's ridiculous to suggest that you can't be one of the best players of all-time if you don't win a World Cup. If he had happened to be born Spanish, he probably would have. Would having a different nationality make him a better player?

I can't compare him to Pele or Maradona, but he's definitely the best player I've ever seen. Even Zidane was never this good. I don't see why his age is of any relevance. If he's insanely good, he's insanely good. And he is.

Yep, you can be considered a great player without winning a World Cup, but it would be nice if you played well at one, when you were there.

 

[Ikki]

Messi did play well - or as well as he could really. His team was set up crappily by Maradona. It had only one real midfielder IIRC. People tend to underestimate how incredibly hard it is to single-handedly (however that may be defined) make a team win. Most of these great players played in great teams and won a lot of titles. Very very few of them played in much smaller, weaker, or unfavoured sides and won.

 

[vcs]

I think Ikki and my views on football are about as close as the Pope's and Richard Dawkins on religion.

 

[Uppercut]

Well, say why you disagree and I'll say why I feel differently.

I can't. It's just too obvious that Zidane is better than Gerrard. It's like trying to formulate a mathematical proof for the statement "2+2=4."