*Official* - Road to India in England 2011

[flibbertyjibber]

the lower order batting of england is superior to that possessed by india, singh notwithstanding, and might have an effect on the series unless the indian middleorder makes those runs moot.

To be fair England have probably got the most depth to their lower order than any side in the world at present, been one of the main reasons we are such a hard side to beat as we scrap draws when we shouldn't. Lets face it, England under Strauss have only lost 5 matches in 28 since he became full time captain which is impressive and are unbeaten in 6 series, most of that is down to scrapping hard with the lower order when the team has been in trouble.

 

[smash84]

To be fair England have probably got the most depth to their lower order than any side in the world at present, been one of the main reasons we are such a hard side to beat as we scrap draws when we shouldn't. Lets face it, England under Strauss have only lost 5 matches in 28 since he became full time captain which is impressive and are unbeaten in 6 series, most of that is down to scrapping hard with the lower order when the team has been in trouble.

awta. The England top order was usually exposed by Amir and Asif but the lower order almost always showed up

 

[Spark]

You mean the NZ series? There's been only one since then, TBF.. and one can't be too harsh if a tailender fails against Steyn, Morkel and co in SA.. Zaheer played a useful knock in that series at Durban though. Harbhajan also made some runs in the first innings at Cape Town IIRC, certainly hit Steyn for an awesome six.

I think Harbhajan was going through an extended bad period with the bat before the NZ series, though.

Think I'm mixing up ODIs and Tests

 

[Howe_zat]

Flibberty has a very good point.

 

[hang on]

I think Shri's original point was that Harbhajan should not be discounted while comparing the respective lower-order batting strengths (Harbhajan's form can also be ridiculously variable even for a tailend batsman), but overall, yes England's comes out on top. Now if we had Kumble....

noone was discounting singh; my point was that even accounting for him, england's lower order batting trumped india's.

 

[vcs]

noone was discounting singh; my point was that even accounting for him, england's lower order batting trumped india's.

Yeah, my bad. I misunderstood the meaning of "notwithstanding".

 

[Furball]

Thats like saying India is better in the spin bowling department Swann not withstanding.

 

[mono]

one thing though, don't things get better for batsmen as the english summer wears on

 

[vcs]

I think it depends on the weather.

 

[vcs]

Itinerary:

npower Test series:

1st Test - July 21-25 at Lord's
2nd Test - July 29-Aug 2 at Trent Bridge
3rd Test - Aug 10-14 at Edgbaston
4th Test - Aug 18-22 at Brit Insurance Oval

Natwest ODI (And T20) series:
International T20 - Aug 31 at Old Trafford
Aug 31 International T20 Old Trafford

1st ODI - Sep 3 at Emirates Durham ICG
2nd ODI - Sep 6 at The Rose Bowl
3rd ODI - Sep 9 at Brit Insurance Oval
4th ODI - Sep 11 at Lord's
5th ODI - Sep 16 at SWALEC Stadium, Cardiff.

Had to skim through a few painful pages at the start of this thread to find the itinerary.

Cannot wait.

 

[Howe_zat]

one thing though, don't things get better for batsmen as the english summer wears on

Most of the time, but it's not as pronounced as it's often made to be, and as vcs says the weather plays a fair part. The Pakistan series last year was one of the lowest-scoring I can remember and it took place in August.

 

[Howe_zat]

Seriously high line for a 4-test series.

Can someone have a look on Statsguru and find the last time an opener touring England scored 400+?

Had a look and there are only 27 occasions in history, but almost all of them are from 5 and 6-Test series, including Smith & Gibbs in 03 and painfully many Australians in 89-01.

Chris Gayle was the last to do it in 2004 (getting exactly 400), and remains the only one to do it in a 4-Test series since Sunil Gavaskar in 1979.

So I still think 400 in 4 Tests is a huge ask for a touring opener here. Sehwag can have an excellent series and still not get there.

 

[Spark]

How good is the second half of this year going to be? India-England, then Aus-SA and Aus-India. Throw in some SL series for good measure and it shoulf be fun times ahead.

 

[centurymaker]

The avatar bet is still on contra!

 

[silentstriker]

lol. Harbhajan is **** away from home and against England

I never said or implied he would do well. I said he would do better than Swann. Big difference.

 

[centurymaker]

I never said or implied he would do well. I said he would do better than Swann. Big difference.

Haha
I don't think these two will have much of an impact on the outcome of the series aswell.

 

[Spark]

Harbhajan might just. English batsmen are not renowned for their abilities vs. spin.

 

[vcs]

I think Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, and Pietersen - when he has his head screwed on right - are all pretty good players of spin. Harbhajan will have to bowl much better than he has in recent times to trouble them. In ODIs, they are tied down by spinners because of an inability to manipulate the gaps and rotate the strike, but that is less of a problem in Tests.

Trott is a guy that scares me a bit TBH. Looks impossible to get out once he sets his stall.

 

[Howe_zat]

To be honest Cook doesn't strike me as a very good player of spin in general, he's just excellent at playing defensive legside spin bowling (or in the case of X-Do, terrible long hops). If Harbhajan bowls aggressively he could give Cook a few problems.

 

[vcs]

Haven't checked, but he has a good record in the subcontinent, doesn't he? Certainly did well on his debut tour to India and SL in 2007 also IIRC, where he would have faced Murali.