WHY do they say this?

[GotSpin]

The original post was only about Tendulkar and Ponting so yeah it was silly to get Bradman in.

ffs.

This thread is about Bradman and Tendulkar no? When there are numerous posts suggesting how hard Tendulkar has it I thought I'd suggest that other players, such as Bradman himself, were under just as much pressure if not more

 

[GIMH]

@ GIMH

We weren't talking about the pressures on the cricket field, rather the discussion was about the pressure from outside (the billion+ population of Indian) which Tendulkar faces and which according to some was BS. So there goes most of your post. Also I never argued about Tendulkar being better than Bradman.

Now onto the rest. Let alone drunk on a pedalo, if Tendulkar was caught drunk on camera or something it will cause an uproar in the country. Yeah something as simple as getting drunk will cause a massive reaction. He has to be the perfect cricketer and the perfect gentleman at all times.

'There goes most of your post'

Did you miss the bit where I said cricket was under more scrutiny in England than ever (or at least for a long ass time)?

Let me explain how the media in England works. Something gets popular. They follow its key players and their family. Print fabrications about them. Have cameras in their face whenever they walk down the street.

If its a sporting team getting the attention, they'll be after the star player, the captain and maybe the pin up.

Guess who was all three in 2006?

Photographed at every turn, as were his wife and children. That was Andrew Flintoff's life back when he was a legit all-rounder who scored 50s against India for fun.

It might not be a billion people; whatever. It's also not 'on-field pressure'.

 

[centurymaker]

Always very helpful when people make these sorts of observations and then fail to coroborate them with anything tangible, and then have the nerve to label the posts of others as being "pitiful". Ahem.

India-Pak match records highest-ever viewership

 

[sledger]

India-Pak match records highest-ever viewership

Which has nothing to do with the "opposite reaction" of Indian supporters, or the lack of this sort of viewership elsewhere in the world you so confidently paraded before us. Unless you're suggesting we accept your submissions on the basis that you're "pretty sure" they're correct, which wouldn't be particularly persuasive, it must be said.

 

[centurymaker]

Right, I was gonna say this before, then wiped it, but after centurymaker's wonderful posts then what the hell

Is it the case that some India fans who have never travelled outside India are undeliberately manipulated into an unrealistic world that paints everything as harder for Sachin?

I only ask because the likes of Jono, vcs and SS all live or have lived outside India and are a lot more level-headed on this sort of issue.

Obviously there are exceptions, like Teja - one of the gunnest posters on CW full stop - but still. Perceptions seem so different between those based in and out of India.

I don't live in india. I'm a half kiwi and half indian.

 

[Cruxdude]

Right, I was gonna say this before, then wiped it, but after centurymaker's wonderful posts then what the hell

Is it the case that some India fans who have never travelled outside India are undeliberately manipulated into an unrealistic world that paints everything as harder for Sachin?

I only ask because the likes of Jono, vcs and SS all live or have lived outside India and are a lot more level-headed on this sort of issue.

Obviously there are exceptions, like Teja - one of the gunnest posters on CW full stop - but still. Perceptions seem so different between those based in and out of India.

Or could it by any chance be that people who have never visited India do not understand the kind of hero worship Sachin is exposed to?

Check this out
ESPN - OTL: Why You Should Care About Cricket - E-ticket

 

[centurymaker]

Which has nothing to do with the "opposite reaction" of Indian supporters, or the lack of this sort of viewership elsewhere in the world you so confidently paraded before us. Unless you're suggesting we accept your submissions on the basis that you're "pretty sure" they're correct, which wouldn't be particularly persuasive, it must be said.

If india had lost, people there would've started burining down stuff etc.

That rating was doube the amount of the quater-final between india-aus btw.

Here's the best rating I could find for england. Pretty low in comparison.
TV ratings: 2m Sky viewers see England clinch the Ashes | Media | guardian.co.uk

 

[GotSpin]

Or could it by any chance be that people who have never visited India do not understand the kind of hero worship Sachin is exposed to?

Yeah I'd agree with this.

But I'm sick to death of Tendulkar supporters acting like he's the only cricketer to ever face immense scrutiny.

 

[Burgey]

The expectation of Tendulkar in India is pretty inconceivable. He is expected to not only score runs every single game and win India every single match, he is also expected to be a perfect gentleman at all times, and this has been the case since he was a 16 year old kid. Consider this, a tax exemption that was given to him for a ferrari he was gifted became a raging controversy in the country. For all his demigod status he was ridiculed like hell by the Indian media when he was having his poor form.

No it isn't. Fmd. Try being Allan Border in the 80s.

Better still, as Keith Miller said "Pressure? That's not pressure. Pressure is a Messerschmidt up your arse".

 

[Burgey]

If india had lost, people there would've started burining down stuff etc.

That rating was doube the amount of the quater-final between india-aus btw.

Here's the best rating I could find for england. Pretty low in comparison.
TV ratings: 2m Sky viewers see England clinch the Ashes | Media | guardian.co.uk

But that just means there are more Ferals there.

 

[Contra]

Right, I was gonna say this before, then wiped it, but after centurymaker's wonderful posts then what the hell

Is it the case that some India fans who have never travelled outside India are undeliberately manipulated into an unrealistic world that paints everything as harder for Sachin?

I only ask because the likes of Jono, vcs and SS all live or have lived outside India and are a lot more level-headed on this sort of issue.

Obviously there are exceptions, like Teja - one of the gunnest posters on CW full stop - but still. Perceptions seem so different between those based in and out of India.

I think it's more to do with the knowledge of teams other than India and about the game in general. When they first join up on a forum and the like they don't know nearly as much as they would if they spent a good few months on it, observing and reading about players. And since Indians outside of India have easier access to Internet etc they invariably end up being more level-headed.

I mean I know that if it wasn't for the net I wouldn't know nearly as much about Cricket as I do now.

 

[Burgey]

'There goes most of your post'

Did you miss the bit where I said cricket was under more scrutiny in England than ever (or at least for a long ass time)?

Let me explain how the media in England works. Something gets popular. They follow its key players and their family. Print fabrications about them. Have cameras in their face whenever they walk down the street.

If its a sporting team getting the attention, they'll be after the star player, the captain and maybe the pin up.

Guess who was all three in 2006?

Photographed at every turn, as were his wife and children. That was Andrew Flintoff's life back when he was a legit all-rounder who scored 50s against India for fun.

It might not be a billion people; whatever. It's also not 'on-field pressure'.

Sounds like my life tbf.

 

[Burgey]

The expectation of Tendulkar in India is pretty inconceivable. He is expected to not only score runs every single game and win India every single match, he is also expected to be a perfect gentleman at all times, and this has been the case since he was a 16 year old kid. Consider this, a tax exemption that was given to him for a ferrari he was gifted became a raging controversy in the country. For all his demigod status he was ridiculed like hell by the Indian media when he was having his poor form.

So does the Indian fan regard his career as a failure then?

 

[hang on]

Is it the case that some India fans who have never travelled outside India are undeliberately manipulated into an unrealistic world that paints everything as harder for Sachin?

possible, but the painting about tendulkar as atlas, hercules, rama, beowulf, and asterix is done by media everywhere, not only the indian media. one example out of many would be mike selvey's piece in the guardian about the kind of pressure or scrutiny that tendulkar faces. and this has been going on for yonks, for the pandering to the virtual indian market argument to have only passing credence. (not saying that that is your argument, by the way)

 

[smash84]

Afridi's team were welcomed back to pakistan after their defeat. Pretty sure there would've been an opposite reaction in india, had India lost.

Excuse me? Afridi didn't know that his team would be welcomed back home. It is only when he got back that they found a warm welcome. Before leaving for home he was asked what he would feel about the reaction back home if it is negative and Afridi said something to the effect "our fans give us so much appreciation, so what if they give us a bit of flak". It is not that the team is welcomed home every time.

Remember Wasim Akram's house getting a good stoning after 1999 WC. Some players' houses also after WC 2003?

We have our bloody corrupt Interior Minister coming up before the semi-final and saying things like "we are tapping the cricketers' phones" FFS. Has anything so ****y ever happened to the Indian team?

Dude get your perspective straight. It is not an easy job being a Pakistan cricketer especially if you're gonna lose.

I remember Geoff Boycott saying on air once, regarding a situation where Pakistan could be knocked out of the WC, "My house is available to the Pakistan team in case they lose here because I know that if they lose then they can't go back home"..........

So please try avoiding making blanket statements when you are not aware of the full situation. Playing for the Pakistan team can be more stressful than the Indian team because the Pakistani fans can be more violent than the Indian fans. It is just that every time it is not brought up doesn't mean that it is not as stressful playing for Pakistan.

I only ask because the likes of Jono, vcs and SS all live or have lived outside India and are a lot more level-headed on this sort of issue.

Obviously there are exceptions, like Teja - one of the gunnest posters on CW full stop - but still. Perceptions seem so different between those based in and out of India.

haha.....yeah......Teja is gun.........hard to believe he is only a 17 year old........

P.S. Some other balanced posters too like Ankit, Blaze, bagapath

 

[bagapath]

bradman played for a country ravaged by the great depression. michael jordan played in an era of great prosperity and success for his native country. tendulkar plays for a nation taking baby steps towards becoming a truly responsible global force while being pulled down by corruption and over population.

the point is, great sportsmen/women, like great artists and writers and filmmakers, work for themselves. they may bask in the love showered by their supporters or agonize over rejection by the same masses. but it doesnt matter who they play for because they do the thing they are very good at and they do it only for themselves.

so.... a billion people expecting tendulkar to perform will not matter to him deep down. he will be more worried about the expectation of the 10 people, his teammates, whose respect is more important for any sportsman playing a team sport. but even deeper down, all that he will want is to play to his potential; meaning he plays cricket only to please himself and himself alone. kurosawa made movies for himself. mozart composed music for himself. bradman batted for himself. what others expect, and how many constitute these others, dont really matter while judging the performance standard of a sportsman.

 

[Cruxdude]

So does the Indian fan regard his career as a failure then?

Well for every fan of his there are guys who go around pointing at the lack of match-winning centuries.

 

[archie mac]

Awesome quote mate.

Thanks

Bradman's career was dissected by the Great Depression and the worst war the world has ever seen. But you're right, Sachin was mobbed while getting a haircut.

Right back at ya

I think this is my first post ever on Bradman. Anyways here goes,

Why compare these two, honestly? None of us have ever lived through Bradmans career and the conditions and people he batted against. He was in all probability a whole lot better than Sachin but I can't understand why people who have never seen Bradman laugh and scorn at people who think he was not as good as he seems to be.

.

So people who have not seen him can not stick up for him against people who have not seen him but criticise him?

Your first post on Bradman? Might be best to make it your last

 

[hang on]

that's rather eloquently said, bagapath.

i agree with most of it but i think that the constructed audience (self, teammates, history etc.) also needs to be factored in. but it is exceedingly difficult to do so and hence best to leave it alone, i suppose.

as an aside, regarding the size of the actual audience one plays in 'front' of (or represents), while i don't subscribe to the linear 'if the population is a billion and 20 times thanthat of the uk, the pressure must, correspondingly, be at least 50 fold', i do think that that the sheer magnitude of the audience, and its expectations, does play a role.

 

[Ikki]

so.... a billion people expecting tendulkar to perform will not matter to him deep down. he will be more worried about the expectation of the 10 people, his teammates, whose respect is more important for any sportsman playing a team sport. but even deeper down, all that he will want is to play to his potential; meaning he plays cricket only to please himself and himself alone. kurosawa made movies for himself. mozart composed music for himself. bradman batted for himself. what others expect, and how many constitute these others, dont really matter while judging the performance standard of a sportsman.

I agree with this completely. I think the context of the match is far more important/relevant than the number of followers you may have.