Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You said "4 man batting lineups don't win World Cups", yet presumably you feel equally limited bowling attacks can?
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*Official* Quarter Final 3 - New Zealand v South Africa
- Thread starter James
- Start date
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
****ing unbeleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevable performance tonight from the Black Caps!! I was happy enough with our score of 221, even though I thought it was probably 20 runs shy of a good score on that complete pudding of a pitch. Hindsight shows that Ryder and Taylor took very much the right approach to their innings - happy to tick things over at SR of 60 or 70. Thought Ryder frankly looked awful early on but he certainly became more comfortable as the innings progressed. A very valuable knock from Williamson as well.
Couldn't believe it when South Africa went from a comfortable position at two down to massive choke. Good pressure applied by N McCullum and Oram (if ever there was a pitch for Oram style bowling, this was it) and the pressure just really, really got to South Africa.
Hugely happy with this performance in what has been an otherwise forgettable season for NZ. This is a huge notch on the belt.
Couldn't believe it when South Africa went from a comfortable position at two down to massive choke. Good pressure applied by N McCullum and Oram (if ever there was a pitch for Oram style bowling, this was it) and the pressure just really, really got to South Africa.
Hugely happy with this performance in what has been an otherwise forgettable season for NZ. This is a huge notch on the belt.
vcs
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Bowled well TBF. The disturbing thing about these SA knockout losses is that it's hard to assign individual blame to any player. Yes, there is a weakness in the middle order, but dodgy middle order or not, you should be chasing totals like this and winning the occasional big game. You should definitely not be losing 3-4 crazy wickets in quick succession when the opposition puts you under a bit of pressure. The panic spreads very quickly in this team, and it's a very collective thing.
Smith (in poor form, but solid opener)
Amla (best ODI batsman in the world)
Kallis (class act, rock solid)
AB (top 3 ODI batsman in the world)
Duminy (very good batsman, would make most teams)
Du Plessis
Botha (useful economical spinner)
Peterson (did very well in this WC)
Steyn (ditto)
Morkel (didn't have a great game, but a quality bowler)
Tahir (quality find for SA)
Look at that bowling depth! Tsotsobe can't get into the side with an ODI average of 18, averaged around 12 in the last series and took 3/13 in the last game FFS. They lose these games because they all lose their heads collectively in pressure situations, especially chasing. No other explanation fits.
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Harbhajan can barely buy a wicket. Will say 2.5 with Ashwin the considering he's had basically no chance to do anything.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
When that bowling lineup is playing at home, yes.
And Yuvraj Singh has showed that he's a bowler on Indian tracks. And he even showed it before this World Cup. It's the reason why fans wanted him in the team despite his **** batting (prior to the WC).
Edit: Just saw you weren't including Ashwin as a bowler. That's a bit odd.
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yuvraj and Du Plessis both definitely count IMO. Neither Bhaji or Smith do though.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
The sacrifice to the bet365 gods worked! Halejulah! Now I am a believer!
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Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Because he's been instrumental in your World Cup campaign?
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
zzzzzzz
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Was there any real chance of India not making it past the group stages? No. Would him performing vs. Ireland and Netherlands proved much? No.
When he played vs. WI he delivered. Importantly, when he played a knock out match against Australia, he also delivered and removed one of their two best ODI batsmen.
I'd say he counts as a bowler mate. And he's definitely been instrumental.
Shri
Mr. Glass
I believe so anyway. This isn't a test match where you have to dismiss the opposition team for a win. You could win with 11 specialist batsmen in theory.
PS: You are a pedantic ****.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Flem274*, Hurricane, Mike5181, NZ Guy, straw man
The boat for Australia leaves in 4 hours, you are no longer welcome.
vcs
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Well, I think SA's batting lineup are usually better than they show in pressure situations (like today). So in that sense I would disagree with Jono. Wouldn't call it a 4-man batting lineup. And they definitely had the ability to go the distance here IMO.
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well if we're discounting group stage performances then yeah, South Africa's batting is going to come across as **** in comparison to anything. They got rolled for 170 ffs.
This is all moot at the minute anyway, as it remains to be seen what India can manage with 2-3 bowlers. You've already blown winning positions against England and South Africa in the final overs, could cost you sooner or later. Just like SA's batting did today and against England I guess.
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Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
I'm not discounting the group stages. I'm saying just because India screwed up in not picking Ashwin earlier in the tournament doesn't make him "not a bowler".
And you implied he hadn't been instrumental in India's World Cup. He helped India beat West Indies and avoid playing Sri Lanka. He then helped India beat Australia.
Instrumental enough.
If India's bowling costs them it will not make any difference to my point regarding South Africa.
Add the fact that SA are known chokers, and playing with so few batsmen is a risky risky move. And one that cost them.
And you implied he hadn't been instrumental in India's World Cup. He helped India beat West Indies and avoid playing Sri Lanka. He then helped India beat Australia.
Instrumental enough.
If India's bowling costs them it will not make any difference to my point regarding South Africa.
Add the fact that SA are known chokers, and playing with so few batsmen is a risky risky move. And one that cost them.
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Your mama
Cricket Spectator
i feel sorry for SA because they are really a strong team. But they are relying on amla, kallis and AB for the runs. I really don't understand why kallis played that shot really. When you still need a hundred odd runs you should cut short risky shot selections. Duminy by the way is one the most overrated batsmen ever. He lost his head twice now. Once against england and today. He's really fragile and he cant play when the pressure is on him. Du plessis just threw AB down the river today. SA really made an error playing botha instead of Ingram.
Congratulations to NZ.They really pulled all stops. Big up to oram. He started the slide with that brilliant catch.
Congratulations to NZ.They really pulled all stops. Big up to oram. He started the slide with that brilliant catch.
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't think he's been hugely important. He's done well in the two games he's played but it'd be like me trying to claim Ingram as a batsman for South Africa. Even if I do concede Randiv as a bowler it still means you've only had 3 step up to the plate this World Cup.
All I was saying is if "teams with 5 batsmen don't win World Cups" why are you so confident about a team with little over half a bowling attack? Both have deficiencies in one facet of the game..