Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes

[BoyBrumby]

Arthur could coach Australia | Fox Sports

Aren't WA propping the other states up?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Arthur could coach Australia | Fox Sports

I've heard this mentioned, or alluded to, in other articles as well. Not sure how to feel about it.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Aren't WA propping the other states up?

They've had their bowling attack completely decimated by injury, TBF. And a reliance on some very inconsistent cricketers (Voges, Marsh, North, Pomersbach, Ronchi).

 

[Debris]

Aren't WA propping the other states up?

If you are speaking financially, they are at the moment. Mind you, this comes after 100 or so years of sucking money out of the other states so I wouldn't complain too hard about it if I was them.

Cricketwise, I don't see it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

If you are speaking financially, they are at the moment. Mind you, this comes after 100 or so years of sucking money out of the other states so I wouldn't complain too hard about it if I was them.

Cricketwise, I don't see it.

Sorry, I think my English slang lost something in translation there.

"Propping the other states up" as in "because all the other states are above them in the Shield table".

 

[Debris]

Sorry, I think my English slang lost something in translation there.

"Propping the other states up" as in "because all the other states are above them in the Shield table".

Ahh, that make more sense. One of the oddities of the English language that the same phrase can have completely opposite meanings.

 

[Furball]

After much deliberation and rethinking, I've settled on my Test team for SL tour

Katich
Usman
Watson
Clarke
Ponting
Smith
Haddin
Hauritz
Harris
Siddle
Young Gun (Pattinson, Starc, Hazlewood etc)

I agree with Trevor Hohns in the paper today, that Usman should open and that Katich would be a good man for him to be inducted into this role with. Katich also adds some true grit, and his stodgy technique is likely to defy Father Time better than most.

Watson, a top order player, is the best man to bat at three.

Harris is our best Test bowler at present, so he comes back in.

While I really think some tough love needs to be meted out to Johnson and Hughes.

I also think the selectors need to move beyond Johnson, Hilf, Doug etc. and see what the next line of quicks has to offer.

And I can't have Ponting, Katich and Hussey all in the same team I'm afraid. Hussey, but for three Ashes Tests, has been dire for two years.

Ponting doesn't even have a qualification like Hussey. He's been dire for 2 years, period.

 

[Spark]

One feels that Clarke's poor form is one of the few credits he has in his bank, tbh.

 

[TumTum]

After much deliberation and rethinking, I've settled on my Test team for SL tour

Katich
Usman
Watson
Clarke
Ponting
Smith
Haddin
Hauritz
Harris
Siddle
Young Gun (Pattinson, Starc, Hazlewood etc)

I agree with Trevor Hohns in the paper today, that Usman should open and that Katich would be a good man for him to be inducted into this role with. Katich also adds some true grit, and his stodgy technique is likely to defy Father Time better than most.

Watson, a top order player, is the best man to bat at three.

Harris is our best Test bowler at present, so he comes back in.

While I really think some tough love needs to be meted out to Johnson and Hughes.

I also think the selectors need to move beyond Johnson, Hilf, Doug etc. and see what the next line of quicks has to offer.

And I can't have Ponting, Katich and Hussey all in the same team I'm afraid. Hussey, but for three Ashes Tests, has been dire for two years.

A lot of issues with that line-up for me:

1. Katich hasn't been in the greatest form recently either. He's also 35.

2. Uzzy has a solid technique for an opener, but does he have the mentality? IDK, he gets bogged down for some periods.

3. Watson struggles to rotate strike against spin (and makes even the straightest of deliveries look threatening). Not really suitable for 3-5, whilst at 6 he can play aggressively against them. He's best suited against the new ball where he can play shots and get us off to a good start. Unnecessary to move him.

4. How can you seriously drop Hussey?

5. If Ponting were to come back, I would have him at 3. Otherwise I would have Hussey instead of him, no point batting him that low.

 

[howardj]

A lot of issues with that line-up for me:

1. Katich hasn't been in the greatest form recently either. He's also 35.

He's had a few poor Tests, but has on balance been one of our form bats for the past couple of years. I think his character traits are very much needed in the side right now and in the immediate future. I also think, as explained, that his technique more than most, is likely to defy Father Time.

2. Uzzy has a solid technique for an opener, but does he have the mentality? IDK, he gets bogged down for some periods

.

I take your point, it is a punt. And if Phil Hughes' head and batting were sound enough, then he'd be ideal. But Hughes is a mess at present. I think Usman has a top-order mentality. Let's not forget that Langer, Katich and Watson were not openers either.

3. Watson struggles to rotate strike against spin (and makes even the straightest of deliveries look threatening). Not really suitable for 3-5, whilst at 6 he can play aggressively against them. He's best suited against the new ball where he can play shots and get us off to a good start. Unnecessary to move him.

I agree essentially that he's a top order player. Number three is so important, and he's our best top order player. I think he is a perfect long-term fit for this most difficult of roles.

4. How can you seriously drop Hussey?

I don't do it lightly, but tough calls need to be made when you have four 35+ year olds in your top seven! (OK, Haddin will only be 34 by the time we play our next Test. As I say above, Hussey has had a horror two years, and just three good Ashes Tests. At 35 years of age, it's not unusual to get a tap on the shoulder if your form has been indifferent and you're not a Test match legend.

5. If Ponting were to come back, I would have him at 3. Otherwise I would have Hussey instead of him, no point batting him that low.

Vigorously disagree. As with AB later in his career, I think he can make a valuable contribution lower down the order - and especially without the burden of captaincy.

Anyway, there's no obvious XI to pick for our next Test in August. And it there are a range of competing considerations, which makes the task fraught with difficulty.

 

[Spark]

I'd still say that Hussey is more useful to us than a batsman than Ponting.

I'd keep both, personally, though. Ponting on lease until Clarke steps up.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Smith at #6 is the most glaring problem with hj's line up, IMHO.

He might have the range of shots for a top six bat (if we draw a discrete veil over that hideous front-foot pull gubbins he's so fond of), but his shot selection just isn't there yet.

I find the continued unquestioning support for Clarke from all Aussies baffling too. I think he looks in rank touch and would probably benefit from a spell out of the team.

 

[Spark]

Long break before the August tests probably counts as a spell.

All in all Clarke's continued bad form is a major problem, but nowhere near our biggest, once everything has been factored in (including Hussey's treatment in the leadup to the Ashes)

 

[BoyBrumby]

Long break before the August tests probably counts as a spell.

All in all Clarke's continued bad form is a major problem, but nowhere near our biggest, once everything has been factored in (including Hussey's treatment in the leadup to the Ashes)

I just wonder how bad his form has to get before his place is even questioned though.

I know it's always mildly risky drawing inferences from form in one format and transferring it across to another, but (I'm guessing) the only meaningful cricket he'll play between now and SL is ODIs so they're all we'll have to go on and he looks as bad at the crease as I can recall so far in the series.

 

[pup11]

Smith at #6 is the most glaring problem with hj's line up, IMHO.

He might have the range of shots for a top six bat (if we draw a discrete veil over that hideous front-foot pull gubbins he's so fond of), but his shot selection just isn't there yet.

I find the continued unquestioning support for Clarke from all Aussies baffling too. I think he looks in rank touch and would probably benefit from a spell out of the team.

I think Clarke's interntaional career has serious black clouds hanging over it atm, if we fail to win the worldcup then their probably would be another uproar among the fans and the media, and Ponting and Clarke being the leaders would certainly cope most of the flak for it so therefore international futures of both of them could come in serious jeopardy.

Agree that we need a different #6 and Smith for now shouldn't be in the test side, Marsh, Ferguson, Khawaja are the most the most likely to step into that position, think Dussey also has a bit of an outside chance if he has good worldcup and none of the younger batsmen do anything of note in the remaining season.

Also think Mussey's example is bad one to bring up here in regard to Clarke because unlike Clarke, Hussey was one of the best LO batsmen even during his lean phase in test cricket and we as a team were also winning more games than we were losing.

Don't mind someone from outside Austrlia taking charge of the Australian team as the coach, the team probably is still stuck in the Buchanan era as Nielsen pretty much comes from the same school of thought so we need someone with fresh and more radical ideas, not sure whether Arthur is the man for the job though.

 

[Spikey]

Usman played all his cricket as a opener fwiw. Only became a middle order batsman because the only place NSW could fit him was at 6.

And while I don't disagree with Hussey going (i think i've said on-here I'd rather he go than Ponting) if it's to fit Smith in at 6 I can't agree with it. I don't particularly care for Marsh but he's gotta be first in-line. There's almost no point bringing Harris back either imo. Body can't handle it.

I don't really care what happens with the batting order though tbh. For me the two big things are Hilf going and the Siddle-MJ partnership of mediocrity with some brilliance in there every now and again going.

 

[Spark]

Also think Mussey's example is bad one to bring up here in regard to Clarke because unlike Clarke, Hussey was one of the best LO batsmen even during his lean phase in test cricket and we as a team were also winning more games than we were losing.

Why so? LO form is irrelevant when it comes to tests, and Mussey's trough during the home/away SA series was just as bad - probably worse - than Clarke's current trough yet he was given two more years of inadequacy despite being older and less experienced at Test level than Clarke is now.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Usman played all his cricket as a opener fwiw. Only became a middle order batsman because the only place NSW could fit him was at 6.

And while I don't disagree with Hussey going (i think i've said on-here I'd rather he go than Ponting) if it's to fit Smith in at 6 I can't agree with it. I don't particularly care for Marsh but he's gotta be first in-line. There's almost no point bringing Harris back either imo. Body can't handle it.

I don't really care what happens with the batting order though tbh. For me the two big things are Hilf going and the Siddle-MJ partnership of mediocrity with some brilliance in there every now and again going.

As you've alluded to, he's always opened through underage and even grade cricket. Don't have any problems with him doing that, if that's seen as the best place to slide him in, and at Hughes' expense.

I think Siddle has to stay in the side, no doubt. He can be a bit bipolar, but it's just a mild case compared to Johnson, who can spend a year getting back into the habit of taking his meds regularly on the sidelines. The bowling will be a bit better with scoreboard pressure being applied, which it wasn't in three of the five Tests - the three that we lost. Disappointing that our bowling didn't come back harder - agreed - but he's clearly the quick to persevere with, and has done the business on flat tracks before as we head to SL.

 

[Spark]

Ummmmmmmmmm.... did you mean to quote my post? I'm a bit confused

 

[vic_orthdox]

Ummmmmmmmmm.... did you mean to quote my post? I'm a bit confused

Nah, sorry, was supposed to be Spikey's post.