Best ODI spinner::: Murli vs. Warne vs. Saqlain

[Francis]

Lol.. No.

Just no.

What he said.

 

[Migara]

Ikki is entitled to his opinion even if he's slighting Murali. Ball is in our court to prove that he's posting rubbish.

 

[Furball]

He's not slighting Murali; Murali's longevity doesn't necessarily make him the better player.

 

[Furball]

against india and pakistan warne averaged 33 whereas murali got his wickets for 27. considering those two teams were the common enemies for both of them among batting line ups that traditionally feast on spinners, it clearly gives murali the edge. when you include sri lanka and australia also in the equation, saqlain comes on top with his wickets coming at 24, murali slips a notch to 28, warne stays on the other side of 30.

There's no legitimate reason to exclude South Africa - who were the best ODI side at the time. Including India and excluding South Africa is ludicrous.

 

[bagapath]

There's no legitimate reason to exclude South Africa - who were the best ODI side at the time. Including India and excluding South Africa is ludicrous.

We are talking about the best players of spin which SA are not

 

[Migara]

He's not slighting Murali; Murali's longevity doesn't necessarily make him the better player.

Yeah, I've shown that SRT >> Ponting in ODIs according to his criteria. Now see him changing his goal posts.

 

[Furball]

We are talking about the best players of spin which SA are not

So?

They were still one of the best, if not the best ODI side in the mid-late 90s. Performances against them are far more relevant than performances against India.

 

[marc71178]

We are talking about the best players of spin which SA are not

So surely he should've taken wickets cheaply against them then?

 

[Migara]

Warne @ 28.63
Murali @ 23.34

Point being?

 

[Furball]

Warne @ 28.63
Murali @ 23.34

Point being?

Point being over the years where the three overlap the three best ODI sides were quite clearly Australia, South Africa and Pakistan. India being 'better' players of spin isn't particularly relevant when they were a poorer side.

If we were comparing 3 fast bowlers from the late 90s you wouldn't look at their record against England and ignore how they did against Pakistan.

 

[Migara]

Point being over the years where the three overlap the three best ODI sides were quite clearly Australia, South Africa and Pakistan. India being 'better' players of spin isn't particularly relevant when they were a poorer side.

If we were comparing 3 fast bowlers from the late 90s you wouldn't look at their record against England and ignore how they did against Pakistan.

It will not matter much whether you add stats against SAF or not. Murali ANYWAY has better stats. At the end of the day won't make any difference to the parameters being discussed, or it may make Warne's stats little worse.

 

[Furball]

It will not matter much whether you add stats against SAF or not. Murali ANYWAY has better stats. At the end of the day won't make any difference to the parameters being discussed, or it may make Warne's stats little worse.

That wasn't my argument. I've already said on page 1 that Murali has the best, most complete record of the 3.

 

[akilana]

There's nothing to separate Murali and Warne in WC. They have pretty similar records(same ER and Ave) in WC but Murali has played more WC matches.

 

[Furball]

There's nothing to separate Murali and Warne in WC. They have pretty similar records(same ER and Ave) in WC but Murali has played more WC matches.

2 of Warne's 4 WC 4fors came in the 2 semi finals he played, with a further 4for in the 1999 Final. Murali on the other hand has only taken 3 4fors, 2 of which were against minnows. He's taken a grand total of 1 wicket in 2 finals.

Warne takes the World Cup honours IMO.

 

[smash84]

We are talking about the best players of spin which SA are not

True.

Just b/c a team was **** and could not win matches because it did not have the bowling to clean up the opposition does not mean that the team was **** in all departments.

That was what happened to India. They had a great batting line-up and were very difficult to bowl to for spinners. It is just that they lacked a decent owling attack who could get the job done. That was the main reason they lagged behind the others IMO

 

[smash84]

2 of Warne's 4 WC 4fors came in the 2 semi finals he played, with a further 4for in the 1999 Final. Murali on the other hand has only taken 3 4fors, 2 of which were against minnows. He's taken a grand total of 1 wicket in 2 finals.

Warne takes the World Cup honours IMO.

The world cup final honors belong to Warne no doubt but WC finals are only part of the equation. You will have a tough time reaching the WC finals in the first placeif you or your team are complete ****

 

[bagapath]

if i were a batsman in the 80s my biggest trip would be to do well against the windies pace quartet, because they could make any batsman quiver in his boots. if i were a spinner in the 90s and 00s my biggest challenge would be to do well against india and pakistan, because they were the masters in playing spin.

as far as ODIs are concerrned, murali did well in the acid test. warne failed big time. that is my point.

 

[Furball]

True.

Just b/c a team was **** and could not win matches because it did not have the bowling to clean up the opposition does not mean that the team was **** in all departments.

That was what happened to India. They had a great batting line-up and were very difficult to bowl to for spinners. It is just that they lacked a decent owling attack who could get the job done. That was the main reason they lagged behind the others IMO

South Africa and Australia had much more powerful batting lineups than India.

True, India's bowling let them down in the period, but their batting wasn't significantly stronger than the likes of Sri Lanka or Pakistan.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1995;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

If you're wondering about the dates, they're Saqlain's debut and Warne's last ODI for Australia.

 

[bagapath]

So?

They were still one of the best, if not the best ODI side in the mid-late 90s. Performances against them are far more relevant than performances against India.

nah. not when you are specifically discussing spinners like how we are comparing two spinners in this thread. if you are a spinner, bowling to cullinan is not the same as bowling to ganguly. so my point stays.

 

[smash84]

South Africa and Australia had much more powerful batting lineups than India.

True, India's bowling let them down in the period, but their batting wasn't significantly stronger than the likes of Sri Lanka or Pakistan.

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

If you're wondering about the dates, they're Saqlain's debut and Warne's last ODI for Australia.

Post 1995 India's batting was significantly stronger than Pakistan I would say. Ganguly, Drravid were beginning to come into their own