Is Steyn as deadly as Lillee?

[benchmark00]

You heard...

You're on notice, ****.

Ya hear?

 

[bagapath]

Nope.

Thats a shame. I was hoping to see Bhupinder Imran Singh take on Vishnu Sachin Kumar at some point. 100 pages of fan boy arguments would have made more interesting reading than "love in the time of cholera". sigh! first I never got to see lillee vs richards live. now, this battle will also remain in my fantasies!

 

[Burgey]

You're on notice, ****.

Ya hear?

Lol.. That would be funny.

Duly noted, ****!

 

[smash84]

Thats a shame. I was hoping to see Bhupinder Imran Singh take on Vishnu Sachin Kumar at some point. 100 pages of fan boy arguments would have made more interesting reading than "love in the time of cholera". sigh! first I never got to see lillee vs richards live. now, this battle will also remain in my fantasies!

lol.........bagapath you are in form these days

 

[Prince EWS]

Thats a shame. I was hoping to see Bhupinder Imran Singh take on Vishnu Sachin Kumar at some point. 100 pages of fan boy arguments would have made more interesting reading than "love in the time of cholera". sigh! first I never got to see lillee vs richards live. now, this battle will also remain in my fantasies!

I actually agree with a lot of what he says about Imran. I just don't extend it to thinking every player in the history of cricket other than Imran was a hack.

 

[Spark]

Thats a shame. I was hoping to see Bhupinder Imran Singh take on Vishnu Sachin Kumar at some point. 100 pages of fan boy arguments would have made more interesting reading than "love in the time of cholera". sigh! first I never got to see lillee vs richards live. now, this battle will also remain in my fantasies!

 

[smash84]

I actually agree with a lot of what he says about Imran. I just don't extend it to thinking every player in the history of cricket other than Imran was a hack.

Maybe Gi was right. These startling revelations might have something to do with the departure of Got_Spin.

This actually makes for another great sig material. PEWS agrees with a lot of what Bhupinder Singh had to say ...........

 

[bagapath]

lol.........bagapath you are in form these days

am forwarding your message to my writing partner who thinks my lines are not funny anymore and insists on changing them on the sets.

 

[Teja.]

I reckon Imran's incredible achievements in the 80s are underrated due to them being considered overrated. If that makes any sense..

 

[bagapath]

I reckon Imran's incredible achievements in the 80s are underrated due to them being considered overrated. If that makes any sense..

I think his greatest bowling achievements took place within pakistan. since very few great writers of those days wrote on cricket in the subcontinent, and because imran at some point admitted to using bottle caps to doctor the ball, and because imran's role as the leader of pakistan cricket team - especially the three drawn series against Windies, victories in India and England, and the WC - overshadowed his achievements as a player......

Wait a minute... What am I talking about? Imran, underrated? NOOOOOOOO...

his name consistently comes up as a top 10 cricketer whenever wherever there is a discussion on cricket... all pakistani fast bowlers still name him as their inspiration.... he was in richie benaud's XI.... holding called him the complete fast bowler of his era (alongside lillee)....

I will tell you who is underrated... richard hadlee! that guy took bucket loads of wickets wherever he went... won matches singled handedly... made his mediocre team a winning force... and now people dont even talk about him... he was a superstar... if this thread were to be renamed "is steyn as deadly as hadlee?" it would make equal sense as it does now

 

[smash84]

I reckon Imran's incredible achievements in the 80s are underrated due to them being considered overrated. If that makes any sense..

lol......what does that mean?????

 

[smash84]

imran's role as the leader of pakistan cricket team - especially the three drawn series against Windies, victories in India and England, and the WC - overshadowed his achievements as a player......
[/B]


I will tell you who is underrated... richard hadlee! that guy took bucket loads of wickets wherever he went... won matches singled handedly... made his mediocre team a winning force... and now people dont even talk about him... he was a superstar... if this thread were to be renamed "is steyn as deadly as hadlee?" it would make equal sense as it does now

I think you are quite right about his captaincy overshadowing his achievements as a cricketer.

Also ditto on Hadlee.

 

[Teja.]

I think his greatest bowling achievements took place within pakistan. since very few great writers of those days wrote on cricket in the subcontinent, and because imran at some point admitted to using bottle caps to doctor the ball, and because imran's role as the leader of pakistan cricket team - especially the three drawn series against Windies, victories in India and England, and the WC - overshadowed his achievements as a player......

Wait a minute... What am I talking about? Imran, underrated? NOOOOOOOO...

his name consistently comes up as a top 10 cricketer whenever wherever there is a discussion on cricket... all pakistani fast bowlers still name him as their inspiration.... he was in richie benaud's XI.... holding called him the complete fast bowler of his era (alongside lillee)....

I will tell you who is underrated... richard hadlee! that guy took bucket loads of wickets wherever he went... won matches singled handedly... made his mediocre team a winning force... and now people dont even talk about him... he was a superstar... if this thread were to be renamed "is steyn as deadly as hadlee?" it would make equal sense as it does now

Yep, Hadlee is criminally underrated. The best bowler of the 70s and 80s and the second best cricketer of that period easily for mine. He's a cricketer who's genuinely extremely underrated. McG had about 5 times as many votes in the recent thread iirc, despite him being only as good a bowler and about 25 runs less per Innings as a bat.

When I said Imran was underrated, It wasn't in the conventional sense of him not being known at all but his overall picture as a cricketer overshadows so many of his individual achievements as a cricketer .

 

[smash84]

Yep, Hadlee is criminally underrated. The best bowler of the 70s and 80s and the second best cricketer of that period easily for mine. He's a cricketer who's genuinely extremely underrated. McG had about 5 times as many votes in the recent thread iirc, despite him being only as good a bowler and about 25 runs less per Innings as a bat.

When I said Imran was underrated, It wasn't in the conventional sense of him not being known at all but his overall picture as a cricketer overshadows so many of his individual achievements as a cricketer .

This does make a lot of sense now.

And yes I do agree that Hadlee is criminally under rated.

 

[ankitj]

Yes, Hadlee is in general under-rated. Rarely do 'experts' on TV/media mention him. But CW does rate him more appropriately. When I put up my chosen all time XI for Cricinfo on facebook, most my friends got back to me saying Wasim should be picked above Hadlee any day! (But then Wasim is possibly the most overrated cricketer by casual followers, at least in India. I have been pounced upon for saying Marshall was a greater bowler.)

Given how mediocre NZ in 80's was, it's a startling fact that they are the only team to win at least one series against all other teams in the decade. All those wins were achieved on back of exceptional bowling performances by Hadlee. He belongs in my top 5-6 of all time.

 

[abmk]

Yes, Hadlee is in general under-rated. Rarely do 'experts' on TV/media mention him. But CW does rate him more appropriately. When I put up my chosen all time XI for Cricinfo on facebook, most my friends got back to me saying Wasim should be picked above Hadlee any day! (But then Wasim is possibly the most overrated cricketer by casual followers, at least in India. I have been pounced upon for saying Marshall was a greater bowler.)

Given how mediocre NZ in 80's was, it's a startling fact that they are the only team to win at least one series against all other teams in the decade. All those wins were achieved on back of exceptional bowling performances by Hadlee. He belongs in my top 5-6 of all time.

true that, regarding wasim. funny thing is when wasim was asked who was the best bowler ever in his opinion, he said without blinking that it was macko

 

[smash84]

most my friends got back to me saying Wasim should be picked above Hadlee any day! (But then Wasim is possibly the most overrated cricketer by casual followers, at least in India. I have been pounced upon for saying Marshall was a greater bowler.)

.

LOL.....didn't know Wasim was that popular in India but in Pakistan Wasim is generally rated as a better bowler than Imran and Waqar. The reason most often stated is "Wasim could bowl 6 different deliveries in the same over". It is true that Wasim mesmerized audiences in a way that no other bowler could. He was damn exciting to watch but in watching him people used to forget that his primary job was wicket taking. Also I think a lot of people in SC (at least in Pakistan) usually rate players by factoring in how well they perform in the ODI arena. Wasim was arguably the finest ODI bowler ever and that is what probably colors people's lenses about him. Although one surprising thing about his test matches is the high number of MOM performances he has put in. A man of match performance every 6 matches

true that, regarding wasim. funny thing is when wasim was asked who was the best bowler ever in his opinion, he said without blinking that it was macko

I find it puzzling that bowlers of Wasim's generation (loosely speaking) Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar (I think), some WI greats all rate Macko as the best. But if we go back a generation Imran, Hadlee, Botham (???), Aussies bowlers, WI greats of the time all rated Lillee as the best. It is puzzling.

 

[abmk]

LOL.....didn't know Wasim was that popular in India but in Pakistan Wasim is generally rated as a better bowler than Imran and Waqar. The reason most often stated is "Wasim could bowl 6 different deliveries in the same over". It is true that Wasim mesmerized audiences in a way that no other bowler could. He was damn exciting to watch but in watching him people used to forget that his primary job was wicket taking. Also I think a lot of people in SC (at least in Pakistan) usually rate players by factoring in how well they perform in the ODI arena. Wasim was arguably the finest ODI bowler ever and that is what probably colors people's lenses about him. Although one surprising thing about his test matches is the high number of MOM performances he has put in. A man of match performance every 6 matches

agree with the 6 balls an over bit and the ODI part

I find it puzzling that bowlers of Wasim's generation (loosely speaking) Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar (I think), some WI greats all rate Macko as the best. But if we go back a generation Imran, Hadlee, Botham (???), Aussies bowlers, WI greats of the time all rated Lillee as the best. It is puzzling.

well hadlee idolised lillee, so that's no surprise. Do you have any links about the opinions of the others ?

 

[smash84]

Geoff Boycott on Steyn

AR: It's now time for the question that you've picked as the best one that's come in for you, and it's from Amir Mir from the UK. He says that Dale Steyn produced yet another master-class performance against India. Looking at Steyn's career would you, at this moment in time, call him a great? If so, where would you rank him among the greats such as Malcolm Marshall, Wasim Akram and Glenn McGrath?

GB: You are kidding me! He is not in the same category yet. He is a very good bowler, and in my opinion, he has been the best seamer in the world for a couple of years now. He is brisk enough to be awkward, he has enough pace with his outswing and out-seamers to the right-handers, which nearly always are the best wicket-taking deliveries to the right-handers because you have no pad for a second line of defence. He bowls the nip-backer when he needs to, to keep the batsman honest. He bowls a wonderful line around the off stump like McGrath or Richard Hadlee, and is devastating to the right-handers. But he has not done enough yet to be in the class of the guys you have mentioned. They did it for years and years and got huge amounts of wickets and many match-winning performances. He has time on his side. He is young and good enough and all he has to do is stay fit. That is the key to the greats: the longevity of their careers and their match-winning performances.

 

[smash84]

agree with the 6 balls an over bit and the ODI part



well hadlee idolised lillee, so that's no surprise. Do you have any links about the opinions of the others ?

I think it would be easy to get for Imran and Viv Richards. I think I recall hearing Holding saying about Lillee.