*Official* - Pakistan in New Zealand 2010/2011

[Zinzan]

Hooray, Vettori gets a 5th-day wicket.

Lol, Oh well, won a $50 bet with a mate of mine that Vettori wouldn't take more than 2 wickets today, he was somehow under the impression Vettori would spin us to victory with 4-5 wickets being the 5th and all. I knew better

 

[Zinzan]

Just posted this to Phlegm on MSN actually

[17:48:02] John says:
1st innings 215 @ 32.61 SR 74.4
[17:48:12] John says:
2nd innings 130 @ 36.23 SR 83.3

Even worse in the 4th innings, IIRC he averages over 38

 

[Faisal1985]

I'm surprised by this reaction. What did you expect from this team? Coming in to the series, did you even have them as favorites? I certainly didn't. This is a team missing its star players, very inexperienced, and led by a new Captain. I would say this result is nothing to be angry about. Let them gain some confidence first, and then we'll think about grander achievements.

you are forgetting that you are playing an NZ side which has its own problems at the moment and was quite low on confidence itself.....

The only thing i am against is what our approach was after tea..with 109 required in roughly 30 overs....and 6 wickets in hand...

 

[slugger]

The icc needs to look into rating each individaul match. rather than a rating system which places more importance on a series win. thus nulifying boring draws to obtain a series win.


a "series win" doesnt improve your ranking. only a "match win" does"
im not saying this because NZ lost. Im saying it from a spectators point of view.

 

[TumTum]

The only thing i am against is what our approach was after tea..with 109 required in roughly 30 overs....and 6 wickets in hand...

Southee & Co where bowling well, it wasn't easy to rotate strike for the Pakistanis.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Daniel Vettori in not bowling his side to a win shocker.

 

[M0rphin3]

Daniel Vettori in not bowling his side to a win shocker.

Vettori is shockingly **** nowadays with the ball. One would expect him to do much better on a raging turner.

Jeets ftw

 

[Zinzan]

I think I have a theory as to why Vettori is worse in the 4th innings of the match (when most spinners are licking their lips) than any other.

It's all to do with the fact he gets his wickets beating the batsman in the air & through change of pace (hardly ever through spin), which effectively takes the surface out of the equation.

So in the 1st innings (1st & 2nd of the match), opposition batsmen tend to play more loosely against him, taking a few risks & generally get themselves out. Whereas in the 2nd innings (3rd or 4th in match), they see the pitch is worn and likely to take spin hence play him more conservatively. Since Vettori doesn't actually get spin, he's relatively easy to keep out. I wonder if there's been another spinner in history that has a worse 4th innings record than, 1st, 2nd or 3rd innings. It's quite bizarre.

 

[vcs]

The sign of a quality player.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Younis's fourth innings record is quite outstanding.

Congrats Pakistan, played this one very well indeed. fully deserved the series win.

 

[Zinzan]

Daniel Vettori in not bowling his side to a win shocker.

lol, indeed. I can't believe Grant Nisbett made the suggestion late in the day that he was a little surprised Vettori hadn't taken more wickets. Has he not watched Vettori bowl 4th innings in the last 7-8 years ffs? How could anyone be surprised still

 

[Zinzan]

Vettori is shockingly **** nowadays with the ball. One would expect him to do much better on a raging turner.

Jeets ftw

Lol dood, you're making me sound like a broken record now, but the answer is a resounding 'No' ! Anyone who's actually watched Vettori in the last decade wouldn't have expected him to do much better regardless how much turn was in the pitch, he never does

 

[Zinzan]

Quite a difference in wickets there but hardily a huge difference in average and SR.

What annoys me about Vettori is that he's a world class ODI bowler, but after the World Cup, apparently he's said he's going to retire from one-day and twenty20 internationals and just play Tests and the IPL.

It would be better for us IMO if he gave up Tests and played ODIs. The format he's of most use to us in.

I agree with that, despite his ineffectiveness as a test bowler, he's a fantastic ODI bowler & has been for years. No 1 in the rankings if I'm not mistaken & you can always bank of his 10 overs going for less than 50.

 

[thierry henry]

Vettori WAC

Seriously, the guy is just a BAD BOWLER and has been for most of his career.

edit: A bad test bowler, meaning sub-par as opposed to truly awful, just to be clear

 

[Bahnz]

Vettori WAC

Seriously, the guy is just a BAD BOWLER and has been for most of his career.

He's not a bad bowler, he's just not a good one either.

 

[thierry henry]

He's not a bad bowler, he's just not a good one either.

hehe, I clarified my post almost simultaneously with your post

I would strongly argue that he is below average

 

[Bahnz]

hehe, I clarified my post almost simultaneously with your post

I would strongly argue that he is below average

You could possibly argue that, though it doesn't change the fact that he's still way above average when it comes to New Zealand spinners.

 

[Zinzan]

He's a left-arm slow bowler, he ain't a spinner. Spinner's get turn

 

[thierry henry]

You could possibly argue that, though it doesn't change the fact that he's still way above average when it comes to New Zealand spinners.

It's pretty much a moot point but I do genuinely wonder how someone like Bruce Martin or...anyone really would have gone if they'd just been able to bowl and bowl and bowl and bowl in test cricket like Vettori has for so long. I mean, Vettori is a spinner who hasn't even been able to turn it for about a decade ffs.

But the big point there imo is that our spinners are about on a par with Tanzania's or Djibouti's. Vettori is a sub-par bowler who is an automatic pick for a country that doesn't produce spinners. imo you can't just say multiply those factors by longevity and conclude that he has been a good test bowler, as so many people do.

 

[TT Boy]

They put Williamson at 3 and now they drop him for the ODIs. Good going.

 

[Zinzan]

They put Williamson at 3 and now they drop him for the ODIs. Good going.

Was never going to make the WC final XV for mine. Should concentrate on Tests for the next couple of years. Which batsman would you drop for him for in the ODI squad?