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Three horse race to be the best team in the world?

vcs

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Dont think it is quite out of this world for that to happen. Given the pitches in India you can really only expect 1 result pitch per series. All it takes is one bad session. Think back to England in Pakistan 2000/01.
But the flipside of that is, if India take the lead, it also makes them very hard to dislodge. Also, given it's a home series, if India go behind, the curators will definitely not prepare a road. It's much more likely to be a dustbowl, where it'd be hard to back against India, especially given their recent history of fighting back in series.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Dont think it is quite out of this world for that to happen. Given the pitches in India you can really only expect 1 result pitch per series. All it takes is one bad session. Think back to England in Pakistan 2000/01.
Think SA/Ind series. If England win a series, they will have to win on a dustbowl unless another curator has a personal gripe against the BCCI ala Nagpur vs. Australia in 2004.

Swann is the flavor of the month right now, and rightfully so but I'd back the Indian batsmen against him 9/10 times.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
I am still not convinced about the English batsmen's ability to play spin too still,tbh.

South Africa have Kallis,Amla and AB who are their best players of spin and as have been reliant on them in India to a large extent while Australia did not have someone so like that so they struggled.

Playing Harbhajan in India out of the rough is a different proposition altogether ,even different from playing spin in Bangladesh or Srilanka.

So when you factor in Swann and Harbhajan ,you also have to see the batting lineups they are bowling too.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
But the flipside of that is, if India take the lead, it also makes them very hard to dislodge. Also, given it's a home series, if India go behind, the curators will definitely not prepare a road. It's much more likely to be a dustbowl, where it'd be hard to back against India, especially given their recent history of fighting back in series.
The problem is in order for India to take the lead, they require a dust bowl. This Indian bowling attack is hardly capable of taking 20 wickets unless there is considerable help for their bowlers. The flatter the pitch IMO, the more likely that England will get into the contest.
 

Hit Wicket

School Boy/Girl Captain
The problem is in order for India to take the lead, they require a dust bowl. This Indian bowling attack is hardly capable of taking 20 wickets unless there is considerable help for their bowlers. The flatter the pitch IMO, the more likely that England will get into the contest.
Yeah you're so right! I mean, it's on dust bowls that India have won 14 our of their last 27 tests losing only 3. They must be taking a filled vacuum cleaner everywhere they go.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Think SA/Ind series. If England win a series, they will have to win on a dustbowl unless another curator has a personal gripe against the BCCI ala Nagpur vs. Australia in 2004.

Swann is the flavor of the month right now, and rightfully so but I'd back the Indian batsmen against him 9/10 times.
Don't think India loses anymore on that track too as a certainty.


The best chance for England would either be a flat track and a freak show from on of their bowlers in one innings + ordinary batting from India or

Something which is more likely is a heavily affected by toss pitch. Something like Ahmedabad against south africa on their last to last tour. Where India got out in 20 overs on the first day on a real wet pitch ,green pitch which was unplayable the first session and then flattened out.
Another chance for them would be if a dry pitch starts deteriorating from day 1 and they are batting first. But India usually counter this scenario pretty well till day 3.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
I am still not convinced about the English batsmen's ability to play spin too still,tbh.
The majority of the batting lineup has played in the subcontinent and specifically in India. Out of all of them only Trott and the replacement for Collingwood can be said to be unproven against spin. Prior, Bell and Cook are all excellent players of spin. Also, spinners bowl in pairs, and no matter how well Harbhajan bowls, I dont think any of the Ojha, Mishra, Chawla bowlers will be able to apply the same kind of pressure at the other end.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Dont think it is quite out of this world for that to happen. Given the pitches in India you can really only expect 1 result pitch per series. All it takes is one bad session. Think back to England in Pakistan 2000/01.
That's a bit exaggerating the truth.:happy:
 

vcs

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The problem is in order for India to take the lead, they require a dust bowl. This Indian bowling attack is hardly capable of taking 20 wickets unless there is considerable help for their bowlers. The flatter the pitch IMO, the more likely that England will get into the contest.
Hmm.. in recent Tests Zaheer has been leading our attack at home rather than the spinners.

Personally, I think our best formula to win a home Test is by putting the opposition in, exploit some moisture in the first session and make some early inroads with the pacers, get the opposition out <300, and then bat them out of it on days 2 and 3. Wait for spin to come into play later.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Yeah you're so right! I mean, it's on dust bowls that India have won 14 our of their last 27 tests losing only 3. They must be taking a filled vacuum cleaner everywhere they go.
India win games on the strength of their batting, not their bowling. This has especially been the case since Kumble retired. If you pile 600 on the board, even the likes of Mashrafe Mortaza and Shahadat Hossain are bound to look dangerous.
 

Hit Wicket

School Boy/Girl Captain
The majority of the batting lineup has played in the subcontinent and specifically in India. Out of all of them only Trott and the replacement for Collingwood can be said to be unproven against spin. Prior, Bell and Cook are all excellent players of spin. Also, spinners bowl in pairs, and no matter how well Harbhajan bowls, I dont think any of the Ojha, Mishra, Chawla bowlers will be able to apply the same kind of pressure at the other end.
:laugh::laugh:
 

Hit Wicket

School Boy/Girl Captain
India win games on the strength of their batting, not their bowling. This has especially been the case since Kumble retired. If you pile 600 on the board, even the likes of Mashrafe Mortaza and Shahadat Hossain are bound to look dangerous.
You are right again! This time India will be against Prior, Bell, and Cook - all excellent players of spin.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
The majority of the batting lineup has played in the subcontinent and specifically in India. Out of all of them only Trott and the replacement for Collingwood can be said to be unproven against spin. Prior, Bell and Cook are all excellent players of spin. Also, spinners bowl in pairs, and no matter how well Harbhajan bowls, I dont think any of the Ojha, Mishra, Chawla bowlers will be able to apply the same kind of pressure at the other end.
Ojha and Harbhajan bowled decently well together against Australia ,IIRC.

Bell was really poor when the last time they toured .
Prior was decent though he only contributed a couple of 30's.
Cook was ordinary too.

None of them can be classified as "Excellent players" of spin,tbh in India specially.
 
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Teja.

Global Moderator
India win games on the strength of their batting, not their bowling. This has especially been the case since Kumble retired. If you pile 600 on the board, even the likes of Mashrafe Mortaza and Shahadat Hossain are bound to look dangerous.
Tbf, Only 2 of India's 6 non Bdesh wins in the post 2010-11 period have come on the back of 500+ first Innings totals compared to 4 in 7 for England.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Ojha and Harbhajan bowled decently well together against Australia ,IIRC.

Bell was really poor when the last time they toured .
Prior was decent though he only contributed a couple of 30's.
Cook was ordinary too.

None of them can be classified as "Excellent players" of spin,tbh in India specially.
Prior scored 53* and it was as flawless as any innings from an English/South African batsman that tour (failed in one inning last time). Prior's record against Murali in SL is quite good and hes racked up a fair amount of runs on A tours to the subcontinent.

Bell has had his own problems, though that has nothing to do with his ability against spin. He has scored runs in SL against Murali and is a good player of spin.

Cook averages in the 40s in both India and SL. Its a bit harsh to say that he's ordinary against spin based on his dismissals to Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma.
 

Dissector

International Debutant
The problem is in order for India to take the lead, they require a dust bowl. This Indian bowling attack is hardly capable of taking 20 wickets unless there is considerable help for their bowlers.
Have you been watching India's recent test cricket? I can think of at least six tests in the last year and a half which India have won against decent batting sides on decent batting surfaces. Three against Sri Lanka, two against Australia and one against South Africa.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Tbf, Only 2 of India's 6 non Bdesh wins in the post 2010-11 period have come on the back of 500+ first Innings totals compared to 4 in 7 for England.
I was referring to their wins at home. Obviously abroad scoring 500-600 isnt exactly a likely proposition.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Have you been watching India's recent test cricket? I can think of at least six tests in the last year and a half which India have won against decent batting sides on decent batting surfaces. Three against Sri Lanka, two against Australia and one against South Africa.
Yes you are right, that was my mistake. The point I was trying to make is that they have won a lot of games on the strength of their batting. Their bowling taken alone is pretty weak especially on the flatter tracks.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Have you been watching India's recent test cricket? I can think of at least six tests in the last year and a half which India have won against decent batting sides on decent batting surfaces. Three against Sri Lanka, two against Australia and one against South Africa.
You are referring to South Africa at home or away?

Because the one against South Africa away was a greentop.
 

Dissector

International Debutant
The point I was trying to make is that they have won a lot of games on the strength of their batting.
That's not been really true in the last six months. The batting didn't do anything special in the two wins against Australia or the win in Sri Lanka. It was the bowlers who put India in a winning position in each game.
 

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