How would you rank the bowling attacks in world cricket as of today ?

[Ruckus]

The losses do not occur on bowling friendly pitches where their bowlers fail to perform. The centurion loss is the only example of the latter, but there were mitigating circumstances there. If the Indian bowling was just ordinary overall, then you would expect more examples of the latter.

Doesn't all of that just reaffirm the view that the Indian side is driven by it's batting though? You mention how the Indian attack manages to bowl well in bowling friendly conditions, but generally any international side can be dangerous when that is the case - just as a typically weak batting side is still easily capable of putting up large totals on a flat wicket. The class of players is generally said to be determined by how well they cope in adverse conditions, not favourable ones.

 

[smash84]

Doesn't all of that just reaffirm the view that the Indian side is driven by it's batting though? You mention how the Indian attack manages to bowl well in bowling friendly conditions, but generally any international side can be dangerous when that is the case - just as a typically weak batting side is still easily capable of putting up large totals on a flat wicket. The class of players is generally said to be determined by how well they cope in adverse conditions, not favourable ones.

exactly

 

[Jono]

No one will deny India's team is driven by its batting.

 

[shankar]

Doesn't all of that just reaffirm the view that the Indian side is driven by it's batting though? You mention how the Indian attack manages to bowl well in bowling friendly conditions, but generally any international side can be dangerous when that is the case - just as a typically weak batting side is still easily capable of putting up large totals on a flat wicket. The class of players is generally said to be determined by how well they cope in adverse conditions, not favourable ones.

See my reply to TumTum in the last page. I acknowledged the same.

 

[Prince EWS]

That's wrong. And if such a post were made in context to a Kallis against Lara or Ponting or whomever a few posters would (rightfully imo) throw a tantrum.

This is about results of games. Because that's what teams bowl to. India's bowling in recent times works as a unit. Ojha comes out with ordinary figures sometimes, but he's intentionally bowling a tight line to ensure that there is pressure on the other end for Zaheer who is reversing it.

No, that's entirely different. Saying that India in fact actually have a top three attack because they are a good team is IMO akin to saying that Suresh Raina is actually better than Chanderpaul because even though he has a **** average and rarely scores any runs, India are a better team than the West Indies, and batting in the middle order is about winning games and series. If you have a look at Kallis's results, removed from his team's, they are still excellent. India's bowling - not so much.

 

[Ruckus]

See my reply to TumTum in the last page. I acknowledged the same.

Yeah I think all of the stuff you said there is probably true, but I don't really get how you can use that argument to justify that "if the Indian bowling was just ordinary overall, then you would expect more examples of the latter". While I don't think the Indian attack is actually that bad, especially with Zaheer there, there are plenty of genuinely mediocre/poor attacks that can still extract good results in favourable bowling conditions.

 

[Jono]

I meant as a unit with regards to the 4 of them. Not inclusive of their batting. You misunderstood me there Prince.

 

[Prince EWS]

I meant as a unit with regards to the 4 of them. Not inclusive of their batting. You misunderstood me there Prince.

Well as a unit they've been IMO the fifth best performed attack over the last couple of years. They've regularly bowled poorly but have been saved by their batting to gloss it over. I think in reality they are #4 because Pakistan's attack is gone, but I think they've performed as a #5 bowling attack. That has nothing to do with who the members of the attack are but how I think they've performed as a unit. Obviously you disagree - that's fine, but if I want to say that and still say Dravid's form is a concern, then I will tbh.

 

[Xuhaib]

Well as a unit they've been IMO the fifth best performed attack over the last couple of years. They've regularly bowled poorly but have been saved by their batting to gloss it over. I think in reality they are #4 because Pakistan's attack is gone, but I think they've performed as a #5 bowling attack. That has nothing to do with who the members of the attack are but how I think they've performed as a unit. Obviously you disagree - that's fine, but if I want to say that and still say Dravid's form is a concern, then I will tbh.

Vettori disagrees

 

[Blaze 18]

Pakistan are making a strong case for number four. I didn't watch their match versus New Zealand, but it appears they bowled brilliantly. If they can keep it up for another series or two, I would have them above India in a heartbeat.

 

[Jono]

Well as a unit they've been IMO the fifth best performed attack over the last couple of years. They've regularly bowled poorly but have been saved by their batting to gloss it over. I think in reality they are #4 because Pakistan's attack is gone, but I think they've performed as a #5 bowling attack. That has nothing to do with who the members of the attack are but how I think they've performed as a unit. Obviously you disagree - that's fine, but if I want to say that and still say Dravid's form is a concern, then I will tbh.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Pakistan bowling in England and a greenish Sydney wicket on day 1 compared to India bowling on some flat beds in SL and India.

 

[Prince EWS]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Pakistan bowling in England and a greenish Sydney wicket on day 1 compared to India bowling on some flat beds in SL and India.

Comparing apples and oranges is the very point of this thread though.

 

[Blaze 18]

Yeah, Lesson learnt. Still hurts though tbh.

You are only seventeen, you will learn with time

 

[Teja.]

seventeen years

In all fairness, It's only slightly longer than the time it took you to come up with that smashingly awesome comeback.

 

[Blaze 18]

In all fairness, It's only slightly longer than the time it took you to come up with that smashingly awesome comeback.

Still less than the time it takes Sreesanth to pick up a wicket though

 

[smash84]

No, that's entirely different. Saying that India in fact actually have a top three attack because they are a good team is IMO akin to saying that Suresh Raina is actually better than Chanderpaul because even though he has a **** average and rarely scores any runs, India are a better team than the West Indies, and batting in the middle order is about winning games and series. If you have a look at Kallis's results, removed from his team's, they are still excellent. India's bowling - not so much.[/QUOTE

A very fitting analogy. PEWS I will have to move you up in the ranks of the best debaters in this forum. I think you do belong in the Bagapath, Ikki, Migara league.

Vettori disagrees

 

[smash84]

In all fairness, It's only slightly longer than the time it took you to come up with that smashingly awesome comeback.

 

[G.I.Joe]

No one will deny India's team is driven by its batting.

I came up with this way back in 2009 as the reason for India's ascent to #1, but was shut down by the 'bowlers win matches' brigade

 

[Walter]

It's a shame Steyn doesn't have a Donald/Pollock/Ntini to bowl with. Morkel is a wee bit inconsistent. Would've loved to have seen Donald and Steyn opeing together.

 

[smash84]

It's a shame Steyn doesn't have a Donald/Pollock/Ntini to bowl with. Morkel is a wee bit inconsistent. Would've loved to have seen Donald and Steyn opeing together.

that would have been awesome. Would have liked to see Steyn and Waqar bowl together in an All Time Xi though. It would have been as exciting as any spectacle on the cricket field.