How would you rank the bowling attacks in world cricket as of today ?

[vcs]

There's not enough evidence to either prove or disprove my opinion given it was of perceived quality rather than of perceived achievements. I think that sums it up.

Hmm.. an opinion based on perceived quality is pretty much impossible to disprove just by definition alone, isn't it?

 

[Prince EWS]

Hmm.. an opinion based on perceived quality is pretty much impossible to disprove just by definition alone, isn't it?

Yeah, pretty much.

Funnily enough I put India higher on my perceived quality list than I did on my achievements list, although that was basically just because Pakistan lost their whole bowling attack.

FWIW, team bowling averages in the last 2 years (exl. games against BD)

England 31.24
Australia 32.96
South Africa 33.37
Pakistan 37.06
India 39.89
Sri Lanka 42.97
New Zealand 45.24
West Indies 49.22

Now it's a flawed measure for a few reasons, but I still think it's telling. India certainly deserve to be ranked #1 as a team but they have got there through factors other than bowling. To say that they've performed as the 4th or 5th bowling attack is definitely fair enough IMO; winning series certainly doesn't mean you have a top three attack.

 

[GotSpin]

If Andre Russel and his injured mates get their act together I wouldn't hesitate in putting the Windies up around no.5. This probably wouldn't be known until way later in the year though

 

[Blaze 18]

Who said that scoreboard pressure is the only factor that helps india win??? where did i say that??? But as PEWS very articulately pointed out that India win despite their bowling and not because of it. If you want to see a team who win because of their bowling it is Pakistan. Their batting is absolute ****. Even in the 90s the Pak batting was very inconsistent but the bowling was top notch. Which was why Pakistan won a lot of matches when it shouldn't have.

And as Xuhaib pointed out how many teams win after conceding 450+ in the first innings??? The FACT is that the Indian batting line-up is just outstanding. Their bowling though is not very good.

I don't disagree with the notion that India's batting has been a much bigger factor in wins than India's bowling, but like I said, the Indian bowlers have almost inexplicably performed at crucial junctures. A few recent matches :

1st Test: New Zealand v India at Hamilton, Mar 18-21, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: India v Sri Lanka at Mumbai (BS), Dec 2-6, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/441826.html
2nd Test: India v Australia at Bangalore, Oct 9-13, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo (a superlative second innings performance by the Indian bowlers)

Simply put, the Indian bowling attack is perhaps the perfect example of a whole being greater than the sum of its parts. When looked at in isolation they appear to be crap (which admittedly is the point of this exercise), but they do get the job done more often than not.

 

[Jacknife]

They were miles better last time the teams played each other tbf.

I wouldn't say they were miles better, considering we both had a innings win and I know Steyn had a injury he was coming back from, but England had KP just back from injury ,Strauss out of form and Trott having a bit of a meltdown. On the whole they were better, but not miles.

 

[Furball]

Yeah, pretty much.

Funnily enough I put India on my perceived quality list than I did on my achievements list, although that was basically just because Pakistan lost their whole bowling attack.

FWIW, team bowling averages in the last 2 years (exl. games against BD)

England 31.24
Australia 32.96
South Africa 33.37
Pakistan 37.06
India 39.89
Sri Lanka 42.97
New Zealand 45.24
West Indies 49.22

Now it's a flawed measure for a few reasons, but I still think it's telling. India certainly deserve to be ranked #1 as a team but they have got there through factors other than bowling. To say that they've performed as the 4th or 5th bowling attack is definitely fair enough IMO; winning series certainly doesn't mean you have a top three attack.

South Africa averaging 33 when Steyn's averaging about 4 in that timeframe is pretty shocking.

 

[GotSpin]

South Africa averaging 33 when Steyn's averaging about 4 in that timeframe is pretty shocking.

Probably doesn't help when Harris averages a solid 50+

 

[Prince EWS]

If Andre Russel and his injured mates get their act together I wouldn't hesitate in putting the Windies up around no.5. This probably wouldn't be known until way later in the year though

Yeah, on paper an attack of Roach, Edwards, Taylor, Bravo, Benn and Gayle could be as high as #4 for me, but the reality of the matter is that it won't see the light of day. If they get one of Edwards or Taylor for any given Test they're lucky, and Sammy is captain so he will feature.

 

[Prince EWS]

Probably doesn't help when Harris averages a solid 50+

Exactly the point though.

 

[smash84]

I don't disagree with the notion that India's batting has been a much bigger factor in wins than India's bowling, but like I said, the Indian bowlers have almost inexplicably performed at crucial junctures. A few recent matches :

1st Test: New Zealand v India at Hamilton, Mar 18-21, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: India v Sri Lanka at Mumbai (BS), Dec 2-6, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: India v Australia at Bangalore, Oct 9-13, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo (a superlative second innings performance by the Indian bowlers)

Simply put, the Indian bowling attack is perhaps the perfect example of a whole being greater than the sum of its parts. When looked at in isolation they appear to be crap (which admittedly is the point of this exercise), but they do get the job done more often than not.

I admitted earlier that they get the job done but even if they do a crap job the batsman more than make up for it.

PEWS figures for team bowling averages are interesting. They don't explain a lot but do point in the general direction that India's bowling hasn't been that great.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, pretty much.

Funnily enough I put India on my perceived quality list than I did on my achievements list, although that was basically just because Pakistan lost their whole bowling attack.

FWIW, team bowling averages in the last 2 years (exl. games against BD)

England 31.24
Australia 32.96
South Africa 33.37
Pakistan 37.06
India 39.89
Sri Lanka 42.97
New Zealand 45.24
West Indies 49.22

Now it's a flawed measure for a few reasons, but I still think it's telling. India certainly deserve to be ranked #1 as a team but they have got there through factors other than bowling. To say that they've performed as the 4th or 5th bowling attack is definitely fair enough IMO; winning series certainly doesn't mean you have a top three attack.

Yeah, that is a much more illustrative post. Didn't think India would be quite that low. Ah well.

 

[GotSpin]

Yeah, on paper an attack of Roach, Edwards, Taylor, Bravo, Benn and Gayle could be as high as #4 for me, but the reality of the matter is that it won't see the light of day. If they get one of Edwards or Taylor for any given Test they're lucky, and Sammy is captain so he will feature.

Yeah I believe the West Indies have a potentially really good attack, but ATM it remains to be seen whether this attack can actually run onto the paddock. I still hope one of Edwards or Taylor can remain injury free for at least 6 months or so, allowing Russel some more time in FC to fine tune his game.

 

[Howe_zat]

South Africa averaging 33 when Steyn's averaging about 4 in that timeframe is pretty shocking.

Mostly due to Paul Harris and then one of Tsotsobe/Ntini/McLaren being pretty shaky. Imran Tahir being selected would improve them to no end.

 

[Furball]

Mostly due to Paul Harris and then one of Tsotsobe/Ntini/McLaren being pretty shaky. Imran Tahir being selected would improve them to no end.

Thats precisely my point - the presence of Dale Steyn doesn't automatically make South Africa the best bowling attack in the world.

 

[Blaze 18]

I admitted earlier that they get the job done but even if they do a crap job the batsman more than make up for it.

PEWS figures for team bowling averages are interesting. They don't explain a lot but do point in the general direction that India's bowling hasn't been that great.

Yeah, I agree they haven't been great. They are woefully inconsistent - when they are bad, they are very bad; but when they are good, they often ensure a win (Centurion and Durban tests for example). And remember, they have had the worst of the conditions in recent times, thanks to Dhoni's record (?) losing streak with the toss.

I agree with the general consensus here by the way - India's bowling is about fourth or fifth best. I have them fourth currently simply because of Pakistan's relatively inexperienced attack. That will definitely change when Asif and Aamer return though.

 

[Teja.]

Made a fecking long post comparing all of India's wins in 2010 with the English ones and how the latter have been provided with immense starts more often for those and the former's bowling attack fought it out after evenly matched batting Innings but my connection disconnected and the back button did not work.

 

[Blaze 18]

Made a fecking long post comparing all of India's wins in 2010 with the English ones and how the latter have been provided with immense starts more often for those and the former's bowling attack fought it out after evenly matched batting Innings but my connection disconnected and the back button did not work.

Always a good idea to copy long posts to your clipboard.

 

[Teja.]

Always a good idea to copy long posts to your clipboard.

Yeah, Lesson learnt. Still hurts though tbh.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Internet's been acting up here too. Must have something to do with the undersea cable. Happened last week too.

 

[Prince EWS]

Made a fecking long post comparing all of India's wins in 2010 with the English ones and how the latter have been provided with immense starts more often for those and the former's bowling attack fought it out after evenly matched batting Innings but my connection disconnected and the back button did not work.

The universe rejected your findings.