***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[ankitj]

nope its not chicken or egg. If you're scorings runs, you're enjoying cricket no matter how old you are..its only when you dont perform that you start not enjoying it

Which basically means that the comments about a cricketer not performing because he is not enjoying are reversing the causality. The explanations of not enjoying cricket or having lost the hunger don't apply to thorough professionals like Tendulkar, Ponting, Dravid etc. They may apply to someone like Ganguly who clearly had started taking his place as a captain in the side for granted during his slump. For others, the explanations lie elsewhere.

 

[Top_Cat]

ABC Grandstand right now are going into why Sachin is playing better than Ponting right now, and how a big factor is simply that Sachin is enjoying his cricket a lot more than Ponting.

No captaincy pressure for one, team is doing better another, and Sachin isn't getting frustrated with umpires, selection issues etc.

They were suggesting he could very easily play til 40.

When Ponting steps down and plays on, averaging 110 for 2012, going to be all over you, ****.

 

[Prince EWS]

As has been said, I think the main reason Tendulkar is enjoying his cricket more than Ponting is the fact that he's batting better than Runako Morton. Cause and effect.

 

[Jono]

I reckon Dravid wasn't enjoying his cricket in 2006/2007 when he was captain, and he was batting pretty good for most of it.

Obviously on the whole the better you bat the happier you are, but there are external factors. Even if Ponting was averaging 50 this series, you can argue he wouldn't be enjoying his cricket.

 

[Jono]

When Ponting steps down and plays on, averaging 110 for 2012, going to be all over you, ****.

Haha right now in the SA vs Ind game the commentators are discussing how Kallis and Sachin have the techniques to ensure they play well despite ageing. Saying that even if they slightly lose reflexes or hand-eye coordination, they still have the technique to score runs.

Basically saying exactly what I said back in 2007 when I predicted the downfall of Ricky and the rise of Sachin and Kallis despite ageing.

i.e. I am awesome

 

[Prince EWS]

Haha right now in the SA vs Ind game the commentators are discussing how Kallis and Sachin have the techniques to ensure they play well despite ageing. Saying that even if they slightly lose reflexes or hand-eye coordination, they still have the technique to score runs.

Basically saying exactly what I said back in 2007 when I predicted the downfall of Ricky and the rise of Sachin and Kallis despite ageing.

i.e. I am awesome

It'll be interesting if it works out that way and why, even though I think all three are very comparable, I think I'll rate Tendulkar just a little bit higher than the other two when their careers are over. Ponting had the natural talent and eye to be a world class batsman by his 25th birthday even though his technique wasn't completely refined yet, while Kallis (assuming what you're saying turns out correct) has the technique to continue to be world class after his 35th birthday even though his reflexes aren't quite what they were. Tendulkar,, though, has done both.

I also think it's a great example of why comparing players only at their peak is pretty flawed. Having the tools to be a world class asset to your team for 20 years is so much more useful, skilful and important than averaging 75 in your best two-year period as opposed to 65.

 

[Jono]

Well I mentioned in another thread that Dravid and Lara's careers contravene my theory, but I never made predictions regarding them in particular. But if life were simple, in theory Dravid should have followed the path of Kallis and Sachin, rather than Ponting.

Anyway, I'm not making a judgment on their careers in my theory/finding. Not saying Kallis is better than Ponting, or Sachin is better than Dravid or whatever. It was just a prediction that Ponting didn't have a chance of catching Sachin's total runs and centuries record because age would catch up to him (and the fact that Australia don't keep their captains as batsman alone) whereas Kallis was a huge threat to Sachin's records because he's a run making machine.

 

[Ruckus]

Don Bradman is the best.

 

[bagapath]

I heard the whole thing actually..they said they get the impression from Ponting that he is not enjoying his cricket whereas Tendulkar is enjoying it as much as he was when he started playing cricket

FTR, black_warrior, I haven't got your email so far.

I agree with GI Joe. It is a chicken and egg situation. But as someone who is trying to follow my passion (like cricketers/ writers/ filmmakers) and as someone who is not very good at what he does but wants to get better (like most human beings in their chosen professions and more specifically someone like ajit agarkar) I can assure you that it is difficult to do anything for the pleasure of doing it alone. You need the results to keep you going. I think Tendulkar is enjoying the game more because his hard work in the nets is paying off in the middle and Ponting has stopped shoulders because no matter what he does, things are not going his way. That was I lean slightly more towards the theory that things will have to work for you to a certain extent at least and then you draw strength from it and keep building on the momentum and then you enjoy what you do.

 

[smash84]

FTR, black_warrior, I haven't got your email so far.

I agree with GI Joe. It is a chicken and egg situation. But as someone who is trying to follow my passion (like cricketers/ writers/ filmmakers) and as someone who is not very good at what he does but wants to get better (like most human beings in their chosen professions and more specifically someone like ajit agarkar) I can assure you that it is difficult to do anything for the pleasure of doing it alone. You need the results to keep you going. I think Tendulkar is enjoying the game more because his hard work in the nets is paying off in the middle and Ponting has stopped shoulders because no matter what he does, things are not going his way. That was I lean slightly more towards the theory that things will have to work for you to a certain extent at least and then you draw strength from it and keep building on the momentum and then you enjoy what you do.

good theory

 

[Cevno]

If you explain Ponting's downfall to reflexes ,then how does it explain Dravid's?

He arguably had a even better technique at his prime than Kallis or Tendulkar.

 

[Ruckus]

Ponting's downfall ain't due to reflexes imo. It coincides pretty directly with his need to try and rebuild a failing team. Too much pressure, not enough time to focus on himself, can't keep his mind on his batting = decline.

 

[Jono]

That is convenient but he was falling to poor pull shots in 2007/08, when there wasn't much presure.

His reflexes and eye coordination has failed him plenty of times in the last 3 years, not just 6 months.

 

[Ruckus]

That is convenient but he was falling to poor pull shots in 2007/08, when there wasn't much presure.

His reflexes and eye coordination has failed him plenty of times in the last 3 years, not just 6 months.

The reason I think his reflexes are still good though is because 1. he wasn't even that old when this decline started and 2. he clearly still has the ability to time shots to perfection after his confidence is there (e.g. 200 vs Pak - he was failing badly to begin with, but then suddenly looked like the Ponting of old. If his reflexes were failing he shouldn't be able to do that.).

 

[Jono]

Reflexes failing doesn't mean you turn into a bunny mate. It just means you won't be averaging 50-70 every year.

 

[Ruckus]

Reflexes failing doesn't mean you turn into a bunny mate. It just means you won't be averaging 50-70 every year.

I didn't say it means you turn into a bunny. But if your reflexes aren't as good as they used to be you would expect him not to be able to time shots so well anymore - yet he clearly still can, for long periods of time, shot after shot against quality bowling. You can't tell me this is a guy whose reflexes are failing:

YouTube - Ricky Ponting 209 v Pakistan, 3rd Test 2009/10

Also, another point against that theory is that his ODI form over the same 3 or so years hasn't been that bad (2007 and 2009 were actually very good) - and if anything you need better reflexes in ODI's.

 

[Teja.]

If you explain Ponting's downfall to reflexes ,then how does it explain Dravid's?

He arguably had a even better technique at his prime than Kallis or Tendulkar.

I disagree.

1. Technique comprises not of defence alone.

2. He had this tendency to play every ****ing ball no matter how far off the off stump it was, leading to an increased chance to nick one behind, how he got out often.

 

[Cevno]

I disagree.

1. Technique comprises not of defence alone.

2. He had this tendency to play every ****ing ball no matter how far off the off stump it was, leading to an increased chance to nick one behind, how he got out often.

Not in his prime he didn't .

It is easy to say now but when he was on top,he used to leave ridiculous deliveries and also score on the offside pretty much too.
Used to get out IIRC,more to the incutter in those days.

 

[Spark]

I didn't say it means you turn into a bunny. But if your reflexes aren't as good as they used to be you would expect him not to be able to time shots so well anymore - yet he clearly still can, for long periods of time, shot after shot against quality bowling. You can't tell me this is a guy whose reflexes are failing:

YouTube - Ricky Ponting 209 v Pakistan, 3rd Test 2009/10

Also, another point against that theory is that his ODI form over the same 3 or so years hasn't been that bad (2007 and 2009 were actually very good) - and if anything you need better reflexes in ODI's.

*ahem* he did get dropped on 0 and looked horrid for his first 50...

 

[Ruckus]

*ahem* he did get dropped on 0 and looked horrid for his first 50...

Which is why I said "he was failing badly to begin with, but then suddenly looked like the Ponting of old". The fact that he failed to begin with was actually why I raised that particular example - if his reflexes were worse he shouldn't be able to suddenly switch on and become a new player for the rest of the innings (and the 89 the next innings, which was flawless). It tells me his problem is with confidence, and not a something more permanent like diminished reflexes.