Kallis vs Ponting as test batsmen

[Ruckus]

Don't worry; no-one else thinks much of it either.

Yeah was just waiting for that response (remarkably quick!), but no offence intended (we all do it), so much of the stuff you spew out is also far removed from reality.

 

[thierry henry]

Did you confuse my posts with someone who has to post in a footballer's name?

What?

 

[Black_Warrior]

TBF, if you read the post you quoted again, it doesn't say anything that contradicts what you've just said. There are plenty of times in cricket when a quick innings is more valuable than a slow one, just as there are plenty of situations that require a slow one. A high career strike rate doesn't automatically imply that a batsman is playing an excellent counter-attacking innings in a chase with a bit of a time constraint, as Sehwag did against England. It could also imply that he gets 30 off 25 when they're trying to bat out the draw ala Shahid Afridi.

Or that he exposes the middle order against a Steyn/Morkel new ball attack by getting caught at third man in the third over of a crucial series trying to slog Steyn through the covers when he's hooping the ball a mile.

As for psychological impact, it's just too intangible. Taking Sehwag's innings as an example, there's no reason at all to say that a slower innings wouldn't have been equally crushing for England psychologically (if we're to, for the sake of argument, ignore the fact that it opened the game up for an Indian win). I honestly think it probably would have. They're Englishmen fielding in horrendous Indian heat and humidity, remember. Making them toil like dogs while the ball grows old and soft will generally be a pretty damn effective strategy. But again, I'm only really guessing. We simply can't say.

You say scoring quickly does not pose any real advantage. I say it does. Now obviously I am not talking about Shahid Afridi scoring 20 from 10 balls here...I dont classify him as a test batsman worthy of my analysis.

A high career strike rate doesn't automatically imply that a batsman is playing an excellent counter-attacking innings in a chase with a bit of a time constraint.

Yes but a higher innings strike rate especially if its a knock of 80 or 100 runs does. Imran Khan was talking about how Viv Richards once took on Bob Willis in the first day of the first test match of a 5 match series. Willis had just been part of the Ashes winning side in 81. Viv got a 60-70 of 30-40 balls but his assault on Bob Willis completely destroyed him. Here was the strike bowler who had won the Ashes dropped after that mauling.
Now you might consider that intangible but tell you what..a lot of things in a cricket match are intangible..Just go and talk to any cricketer..and hear them speak about cricket..you will see just a lot of what is important in a given cricket match can be intangible.

That Sehwag innings that I was talking about...I can bet that had he not got that 80 with a strike rate of over 100..India would not have won that match. They would not lose it..but it would end in a draw. His innings not only demoralised the English bowlers..it also charged up the Indian batsmen.

When it comes to Ponting and Kallis..I think Ponting is the kind of player who can have that kind of an effect. He is the more dominant batsman and at his best..he can take the game away from you.
Kallis on the other hand is not dominant. Now the reason that upsets me a little is because it has nothing to do with lack of ability. He can be just as dominant and aggressive if he wants to be as he has shown in IPL. For some reason, he just does not play like that. He has all the shots in the book and he can really bat more aggressively.. He kind of gets into his shell a little bit at times..

Both have their strengths and weaknesses.. At this moment, based on performances, consistency, dominance, I would pick Ponting over Kallis but considering Ponting's decline over the last year and the ascent of Kallis..he might very well surpass Ponting in the next 2 years. His double century the other day at a much higher strike rate kind of hints that he is trying to change his 'boring' batting.

 

[silentstriker]

Higher s/r is almost always better with only rare exceptions.

You only have to see the effect that a Sehwag blitz has on a teams chances, their body language, their field placements, their bowling plan and how much it helps all the other batsmen.

I've not heard anyone say that they are more afraid of a Dravid century compared to a Sehwag one. Not one opposition bowler. Now, Dravid may score more often but that's a separate issue.

S/R is huge.

 

[silentstriker]

Basically what I'm saying is that if I have two batsmen that average the same, score the same number of runs etc but one bats at an s/r of 45 and the other at 65 or even 85, it would not be remotely a hard decision who I'd pick for my team every single time. Every Time.

 

[vic_orthdox]

KallisKallisKallis

Anyone who thinks Kallis has hurt SA by batting too slowly at times needs to balance that against how Ponting has hurt Australia by being **** for ages now

And lol at people trying to argue a point with HB, a bloke whose posts consist of a vaguely related stream of incoherent words

Insults like this are not acceptable, TH.

Did you confuse my posts with someone who has to post in a footballer's name?

Please report posts and don't inflame the situation.

 

[dhillon28]

at the moment easily Kallis

overall with both at their peak, I'd have to say Ponting. He was more attacking, and apart from India in India has a good record against all countries.

If u want to go really deep then Kallis better player of spin and Ponting better player of pace bowling.

 

[thierry henry]

Insults like this are not acceptable, TH.

ok, in future I'll be sure to post incoherently, deliberately frustrate and obscure the point of discussion, and be more subtle with my insults. This, I'm sure, will make me an esteemed cricketweb poster.

 

[ankitj]

I want to change my vote now

 

[centurymaker]

i want to change my vote now

+1

 

[Prince EWS]

I want to change my vote now

I don't.

 

[Spark]

I don't.

you voted about fifteen minutes ago didn't you

 

[Prince EWS]

you voted about fifteen minutes ago didn't you

Haha nah I voted ages ago. I didn't even completely believe my vote and I still don't, but I voted for Kallis for three reasons:

1. I love him.
2. I think it's very close and the dismissive attitude of some of the Ponting-voters gave me the ****s.
3. I actually think I'll want to vote for Kallis legitimately by the time they both retire. Kallis has more left in the tank IMO and he'll make up any ground that exists.

 

[Cevno]

I want to change my vote now

I still don't.

 

[bagapath]

Haha nah I voted ages ago. I didn't even completely believe my vote and I still don't, but I voted for Kallis for three reasons:

1. I love him.
2. I think it's very close and the dismissive attitude of some of the Ponting-voters gave me the ****s.
3. I actually think I'll want to vote for Kallis legitimately by the time they both retire. Kallis has more left in the tank IMO and he'll make up any ground that exists.

Prince EWS! This seems to be your season. Go on gloating, mate. Ridicule us. Kick us. Bash us. Jacques Borelis will one day go back to his natural Dravidian SR. I will get back at you then.

 

[Uppercut]

Prince EWS! This seems to be your season. Go on gloating, mate. Ridicule us. Kick us. Bash us. Jacques Borelis will one day go back to his natural Dravidian SR. I will get back at you then.

Were you watching yesterday? I thought the Kallis/De Villiers partnership was a good example of where scoring slowly was much better, actually. Made things a lot easier for Ashwell Prince coming in against an older ball and tired attack.

 

[Prince EWS]

Prince EWS! This seems to be your season. Go on gloating, mate. Ridicule us. Kick us. Bash us. Jacques Borelis will one day go back to his natural Dravidian SR. I will get back at you then.

I suggested, in the India in South Africa tour thread, that cricket be renamed 'kallisball'. What are your thoughts on this?

Personally I think it's fair to say that Kallis is one of the greatest kallisballers of all time.

 

[Jono]

Prince EWS! This seems to be your season. Go on gloating, mate. Ridicule us. Kick us. Bash us. Jacques Borelis will one day go back to his natural Dravidian SR. I will get back at you then.

That's a poor post.

Kallis is taking the series away from India right now. Admit he's a ****ing gun.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I suggested, in the India in South Africa tour thread, that cricket be renamed 'kallisball'. What are your thoughts on this?

Personally I think it's fair to say that Kallis is one of the greatest kallisballers of all time.

Stop making it sound like the Germans invented the game!

 

[Cevno]

Were you watching yesterday? I thought the Kallis/De Villiers partnership was a good example of where scoring slowly was much better, actually. Made things a lot easier for Ashwell Prince coming in against an older ball and tired attack.

But Amla before that made things a lot easier not only for Kallis but for ABDV also by putting pressure on opposition.