*Official* India in South Africa

[vcs]

SA batsmen have done very well in India because their pace bowlers can get a lot out of the wickets there when some others can't.

They lose at home quite a bit mainly because of their batsmen, who flatter to deceive a lot.

I think their current batting lineup is superb, except for Smith lacking a top-class opening partner (or should I say settled). You are right that their batsmen could do better at home, though. Probably a few too many collapses in recent times (especially at Durban).

 

[silentstriker]

They have gone and won a test match in South Africa many times

You mean exactly once before?

 

[Shri]

Was awesome to see the aggression towards the tail today by the bowlers. They gave everything back to guys who had done the same while they were batting. Steyn vs Khan was particularly good to see.

 

[Blaze 18]

What will the pitch for the next test be like ? I suppose they would be wary of producing an out and out green-top with the series on the line.

 

[Shri]

I think their current batting lineup is superb, except for Smith lacking a top-class opening partner (or should I say settled). You are right that their batsmen could do better at home, though. Probably a few too many collapses in recent times (especially at Durban).

Roussow should get a go. Awesome talent.

 

[Jono]

I think their current batting lineup is superb, except for Smith lacking a top-class opening partner (or should I say settled). You are right that their batsmen could do better at home, though. Probably a few too many collapses in recent times (especially at Durban).

Of course their current batting lineup is very very good. But it is often the cause of their losses, and it happens a bit to frequently on home soil. Their record isn't great.

Last 5 years they've lost tests to Pakistan, WI, India (twice), England and Australia.

 

[Shri]

What will the pitch for the next test be like ? I suppose they would be wary of producing an out and out green-top with the series on the line.

In case of a green pitch the batting line up should be:

Gautham Gambhir
Murali Vijay
Cheteshwar Pujara
Sachin Tendulkar
Virender Sehwag
VVS Laxman
MS Dhoni
Harbhajan Singh
Zaheer Khan
Ishant Sharma
S Sreesanth

 

[Black_Warrior]

You mean exactly once before?

oh wow..I thought they had won in 2001 or 1996...Was 2006 the first time they won a test in SA?

 

[Shri]

oh wow..I thought they had won in 2001 or 1996...Was 2006 the first time they won a test in SA?

Yeah, thats where Sreesanth made a name for himself. Dancing after smashing Nel for a six, bowling SA pretty much out by himself once etc.

 

[Prince EWS]

Why have India had a historically stronger home record despite their spinners (Kumble, Harbhajan) not being as strong at their discipline as the SA quicks (Pollock, Steyn) etc.? It's an interesting question to ponder. India aren't even producing that many dustbowls these days and visiting teams are a lot better than they used to be at handling spin and the other unique challenges that India provide. I think India's opening partnership being amazing in India while SA's in SA isn't... is a big part of that.

Interestingly enough though, SA do very well compared to others when they tour India.

I'm going to put it out there (and I'm not even sure I completely buy into myself, but I'm going to put it forward) that it might have something to do with the more result-orientated pitches in South Africa. When good teams lose at home it's very often a close contest, and unlike in South Africa where a close game will still bring a result, you often have to completely outplay your opponents in India, West Indies, Australia etc to get results out of those wickets. Of course there are many exceptions I think it might go some way to explaining it. Look at this series for example - South Africa steamrolled India in the first Test and India won a close one in the second to bring the score to 1-1. That's Test cricket, but in India where you may need to really outplay the opposition to get a win it could be 1-0 with the same relative performances. Genuinely dominant performances are much more common by home teams, even relatively to how much more common wins are by home teams, so India could win a home series 1-0 performing exactly the same as a 1-1 drawing South African home team, in theory.

Of course the fact that India historically have better batsmen - particularly in home conditions - than South Africa plays an important part too, but it's something worth considering.

 

[Blaze 18]

In case of a green pitch the batting line up should be:

Gautham Gambhir
Murali Vijay
Cheteshwar Pujara
Sachin Tendulkar
Virender Sehwag
VVS Laxman
MS Dhoni
Harbhajan Singh
Zaheer Khan
Ishant Sharma
S Sreesanth

I am sure they won't drop Rahul Dravid. It is not going to happen. I would agree with sending Virender Sehwag down the order. One change I would consider making to your order is swapping the positions of C.Pujara and VVS Laxman.

 

[Jono]

Another Laxman + Zaheer batting partnership in SA results in an Indian victory

 

[Black_Warrior]

Of course their current batting lineup is very very good. But it is often the cause of their losses, and it happens a bit to frequently on home soil. Their record isn't great.

Last 5 years they've lost tests to Pakistan, WI, India (twice), England and Australia.

Yes I was going to say the same thing about SA..their batting is very strong on paper..and when it delivers..it really crushes the opposition like they did in the first test match..
But too often they are susceptible to collapses..this is the reason they have not managed to win their last two home series. If you look at their defeats against England and Australia at home..its the batting that has led them down..
AB De Villiers is a strange case to me..Just like week I read something about him on Cricinfo and it was full of praise for him..he scored a lot of runs this recently but under pressure..when its 3 down for 100...he just doesnt seem the kind of guy who can fix everything..the way Hussey does for Australia or Laxman does for India.

 

[Jono]

Loving Cricinfo making fun of Dhoni's presentation speech by highlighting all the "WELL OF COURSE" bits.

Such a random speech habit.

Would be weird if someone said to him "you are a ****"

"well of course..."

 

[silentstriker]

In case of a green pitch the batting line up should be:

Gautham Gambhir
Murali Vijay
Cheteshwar Pujara
Sachin Tendulkar
Virender Sehwag
VVS Laxman
MS Dhoni
Harbhajan Singh
Zaheer Khan
Ishant Sharma
S Sreesanth

Gambhir. Green pitch. Gambhir. Green pitch. Gambhir. Green pitch.

Does not compute. I'd rather take my chances with Sehwag. Also, lol@nodravid on a green pitch.

The beauty of Sehwag is his ability to completely change a match in the first session and putting the opposition on the back foot. As much as I know he wants to, he will never bat in the middle order again. A victim of his own success.

 

[Manee]

The beauty of Sehwag is his ability to completely change a match in the first session and putting the opposition on the back foot. As much as I know he wants to, he will never bat in the middle order again. A victim of his own success.

Tried to articulate this point several times but this sorta hits the nail on the head. Sehwag can seize momentum in an innings, which is so crucial on a green pitch.

 

[Jono]

I like Vijay. He's done well on the whole with the opportunities he's had and he's never had a consistent run in the team to properly make a name for himself. So his failures need to be put into perspective.

BUT... dropping Dravid for Vijay is a silly suggestion. What on Earth makes you think Vijay will score more runs on a bouncy track compared to Dravid?

 

[vcs]

I'm going to put it out there (and I'm not even sure I completely buy into myself, but I'm going to put it forward) that it might have something to do with the more result-orientated pitches in South Africa. When good teams lose at home it's very often a close contest, and unlike in South Africa where a close game will still bring a result, you often have to completely outplay your opponents in India, West Indies, Australia etc to get results out of those wickets. Of course there are many exceptions I think it might go some way to explaining it. Look at this series for example - South Africa steamrolled India in the first Test and India won a close one in the second to bring the score to 1-1. That's Test cricket, but in India where you may need to really outplay the opposition to get a win it could be 1-0 with the same relative performances. Genuinely dominant performances are much more common by home teams, even relatively to how much more common wins are by home teams, so India could win a home series 1-0 performing exactly the same as a 1-1 drawing South African home team, in theory.

Of course the fact that India historically have better batsmen - particularly in home conditions - than South Africa plays an important part too, but it's something worth considering.

Certainly drawn games are a lot less likely to occur in SA. The weather has to play a big part for it to happen.

Although opening batsmen have it a lot easier in India compared to SA, it's amazing how well India's batsmen (especially Sehwag) are able to exploit them.

 

[vcs]

I like Vijay. He's done well on the whole with the opportunities he's had and he's never had a consistent run in the team to properly make a name for himself. So his failures need to be put into perspective.

BUT... dropping Dravid for Vijay is a silly suggestion. What on Earth makes you think Vijay will score more runs on a bouncy track compared to Dravid?

Absolutely, Dravid must play. Even a gritty 40 from him is valuable because other batsmen in partnership with him will get some useful runs.

 

[Bun]

Such a random speech habit.

Would be weird if someone said to him "you are a ****"

"well of course..."

Haha, I noted a similar tendency with the latest Ashes hero Tim Bresnan. In an interview I watched, spanning about 2-3 minutes, I counted no fewer than twenty five instances of 'you know's.

With Dhoni, he's not even a graduate from what I've read. So for a non native speaker, his English is surprisingly more articulate than expected.