*Official* India in South Africa

[Manee]

I think the optimism lies in the fact that we are 'effectively' 166/4 in the third innings of a very low scoring game. We can't overlook that. Every who notes that SA are favourites are anticipating an Indian collapse. I have supreme faith in one of Laxman, Pujara, Dhoni, Harbhajan and even Zaheer to score the 60 or 70 that will take us toward a 300 lead. People assume that India got lucky in bowling SA out cheaply, but in fact, you could look at it and say that India did this with half of their attack bowling to a fraction of their potential.

 

[Manee]

I also predicted Pujara to hit a ton in the first innings, to be fair. That didn't work out so well.

Nah, I reckon you just misspelled 'second'.

 

[Blaze 18]

Maybe you should predict tons for Amla, Kallis and de Villiers, Prince EWS

 

[r3alist]

Just to clarify, I did not say India would have won the first test for sure. I only said South Africa would have had a much harder time of it. The conditions that India got on the first day were in stark contrast to what the South Africans did on the second and third days. Granted the Indian batting and bowling were both woeful, but let us not pretend that the toss didn't make any difference.

and if kallis had not got out in freakish circumstances SA would have set a 30 run lead


zaheer khan can not keep himself fit, no if's and but's.

 

[Blaze 18]

I think the optimism lies in the fact that we are 'effectively' 166/4 in the third innings of a very low scoring game. We can't overlook that. Every who notes that SA are favourites are anticipating an Indian collapse. I have supreme faith in one of Laxman, Pujara, Dhoni, Harbhajan and even Zaheer to score the 60 or 70 that will take us toward a 300 lead. People assume that India got lucky in bowling SA out cheaply, but in fact, you could look at it and say that India did this with half of their attack bowling to a fraction of their potential.

If Ishant Sharma and Sreesanth step up, then I would definitely back India to defend 250-300.

 

[vcs]

It's undeniable that India got a good slice of luck in SA's innings... it started with Kallis's run out. Then Amla was making the pitch look like a day 1 Ahmedabad pitch but played a sudden rash stroke. Then India held a couple of brilliant catches, got Prince off an inside edge and the collapse was well underway. The catches can't be called luck but you can't always expect those things to go your way either.

India basically have to show some spine with the bat now to capitalize on this advantage.

 

[vcs]

and if kallis had not got out in freakish circumstances SA would have set a 30 run lead


zaheer khan can not keep himself fit, no if's and but's.

How exactly did you work that one out? I'm not denying India were lucky there as my previous post shows, but you make your own luck.

 

[r3alist]

How exactly did you work that one out?

in the same way most people seem to be speculating here.

 

[Blaze 18]

and if kallis had not got out in freakish circumstances SA would have set a 30 run lead


zaheer khan can not keep himself fit, no if's and but's.

Where did I mention Zaheer Khan in that post ? As for Kallis' dismissal - he was to blame for backing up; did he not have control over it ? India had no control over the toss. If we are going to start making excuses for batsmen getting out to poor shots/error in judgement. then half of the Indian wickets (at least) that have fallen have been 'lucky'.

 

[vcs]

in the same way most people seem to be speculating here.

What exactly did people speculate? They said things would have been better in the first Test if Zaheer had played, which is not unreasonable looking at what happened today (my view is we would still have lost). What you said, on the other hand, is a load of nonsense, based on nothing.

 

[r3alist]

Where did I mention Zaheer Khan in that post ? As for Kallis' dismissal - he was to blame for backing up; did he not have control over it ? India had no control over the toss. If we are going to start making excuses for batsmen getting out to poor shots/error in judgement. then half of the Indian wickets (at least) that have fallen have been 'lucky'.

it was a freak wicket though.

india still had fairly good conditions in the second morning -no need to harp on about khan being there?

plus kallis is a great solid player, not unreasonable to speculate about him steadying the ship.......

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, I reckon you just misspelled 'second'.

I actually predicted that as well.

 

[Blaze 18]

it was a freak wicket though.

plus kallis is a great solid player, not unreasonable to speculate about him steadying the ship.......

Like I said, he was to blame for backing up. Yes or no ? Just like Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dravid were to blame for playing rash shots off balls that could have been left alone.

india still had fairly good conditions in the second morning -no need to harp on about khan being there?

Just to clarify, I did not say India would have won the first test for sure. I only said South Africa would have had a much harder time of it. The conditions that India got on the first day were in stark contrast to what the South Africans did on the second and third days. Granted the Indian batting and bowling were both woeful, but let us not pretend that the toss didn't make any difference.

Can you see Zaheer Khan mentioned in the above post ? I can't. In any case, there is nothing wrong with mentioning he would have likely made a difference - even AB de Villiers did. You're not telling me you wouldn't have said anything if India had beaten South Africa without Steyn That the conditions were vastly different is undeniable. If you don't want to believe that - cool. I even mentioned that both India's batting and bowing were woeful, so I am not even sure what your point is ? If you're just looking for an argument, I am sorry mate, not interested in the slightest.

 

[Furball]

Well, so do I, except I love the pitches on the subcontinent equally (by and large), think they get a lot of unfair criticism and generalizations, when they mostly produce awesome Test cricket.

Need more dustbowls in the subcontinent IMO.

I wouldn't mind the occasional road, but the problem in the subcontinent is when you get India v Sri Lanka on a road, in conditions which batsmen on both sides are used to. Those matches invariably result in bore draws where batsmen on both sides fill their boots by flogging a bowling attack that has pretty much no chance whatsoever of taking wickets.

 

[vcs]

Need more dustbowls in the subcontinent IMO.

I wouldn't mind the occasional road, but the problem in the subcontinent is when you get India v Sri Lanka on a road, in conditions which batsmen on both sides are used to. Those matches invariably result in bore draws where batsmen on both sides fill their boots by flogging a bowling attack that has pretty much no chance whatsoever of taking wickets.

Agreed, that is a very good suggestion.

 

[Cruxdude]

Think we need a minimum of 300 to win here. Sat up the whole night watching the game (12 to 7.30 AM) and am left longing for the next days play, cannot bear the suspense. Was sorely disappointed by Dravid's and Sachin's dismissals. Gifting their wickets away. I long so much fr the Dravid of old who was above all temptations outside the off-stump. His brittleness has been a big problem for India now.

Amla really seemed to be playing a different game compared to all the other batsmen on view, a real pleasure to watch. Hope the law of averages catches up with him.

 

[Dissector]

Need more dustbowls in the subcontinent IMO.

I wouldn't mind the occasional road, but the problem in the subcontinent is when you get India v Sri Lanka on a road, in conditions which batsmen on both sides are used to. Those matches invariably result in bore draws where batsmen on both sides fill their boots by flogging a bowling attack that has pretty much no chance whatsoever of taking wickets.

The last 12 test matches between India and Sri Lanka have been 9 results and 3 draws. There have indeed been a couple of really boring draws but the overall record is hardly terrible.

I think one pitch in every series should really help the bowlers. This could be a quick/bouncy wicket in Aus/SA, a greentop in Eng/NZ or a dustbowl in the subcontinent.

 

[Blaze 18]

Need more dustbowls in the subcontinent IMO.

I wouldn't mind the occasional road, but the problem in the subcontinent is when you get India v Sri Lanka on a road, in conditions which batsmen on both sides are used to. Those matches invariably result in bore draws where batsmen on both sides fill their boots by flogging a bowling attack that has pretty much no chance whatsoever of taking wickets.

The opposition teams start complaining. For some inexplicable reason, a green top is seen as a fair pitch but a dustbowl is not.

 

[Furball]

The last 12 test matches between India and Sri Lanka have been 9 results and 3 draws. There have indeed been a couple of really boring draws but the overall record is hardly terrible.

I think one pitch in every series should really help the bowlers. This could be a quick/bouncy wicket in Aus/SA, a greentop in Eng/NZ or a dustbowl in the subcontinent.

Was using India v Sri Lanka as an example of 2 subcontinental teams, not saying all matches between the two are boring.

However, a result doesn't mean that the pitch isn't a road. Look at the recent Test in Adelaide, Adelaide is generally a joke of a pitch but a result happened because England bowled well/Australia batted badly. It's unusual for the home side to capitulate in such a way, but generally it's when 2 subcontinental sides match up that you get ridiculous 700 plays 650 draws - in part because the pitches are massively skewed towards batsmen, but also because both batsmen are very familiar with the conditions. A flat pitch in England, South Africa or Australia will still cause some problems for SC batsmen, because they're not accustomed to the bounce, likewise non-SC batsmen will struggle a little on SC roads because the ball doesn't come onto the bat/bounce as much as they're used to.

 

[Cevno]

It may not seem much in the larger scheme of things,but the quickfire 25 in the first innings and the 32 in the second innings Sehwag got were really really crucial for India.

Got them of to decent starts. Threw it away in the second innings but atleast put of the early innings pressure in both.