*Official* Fourth Test at the MCG

[Goughy]

Fair go England. Reckon things would have been a bit closer had we won the toss, but it doesn't really matter. They've played really well and deserve the urn. Hopefully we can turn things around in Sydney and regain some respect with a 2-2. Still kicking myself I didn't put $100 on England at the start of play yesterday, there were great odds but my mate was beeping loudly to leave for the ground. Should have left him waiting.

Our batting should not come as a surprise to anyone, most of us here have been going on about it since the WI and Indian tours in 08. Back then we were already seeing the cracks with one or two players always out of form and clockwork-like collapses as soon as the bowling got tight. It's a lot worse now. You can't really justify 98 ao against two pacers that weren't even in the tour's starting XI and had bowled rubbish to the Victorians on the same ground not two weeks before. In terms of selection, as I said, stick with your best XI. I can't see the point of sticking a random kid in there and getting out for 5 runs, having his technique exposed or getting carted around the park.

After England got shellacked here in 06/07 they ordered a full review of the system, I thought it was a bit over the top at the time and to be honest I still do. They weren't a bad side, just a bit unlucky with injuries, form and coming up against an all-time great side (things like Giles' dropped catch didn't help either...). However I really do believe we need a full, honest and independent review of the Australian system with three areas of focus:

1. The selectors.
2. The coaching staff.
3. The lack of spin talent coming through in Australian cricket.

And if everything is above board I'd be happy even if we weren't winning. I can accept that we do not have the right to be the best side in the world and these things are cyclical anyways. We're average now, we may be a lot better in the near future. However, addressing those three areas may get us back to the top a lot sooner.

Dont forget choice of captain. If Strauss was captain then I dont claim England would have won the series but having Flintoff at the helm was a disaster once things started to go wrong.

England had a couple of lost years as a result of the wrong guy being given the armband after Vaughan went. I would suggest Aus think long and hard to avoid the same mistakes after Ponting goes.

 

[Spikey]

My guess is that he will be shuffled out and retired (At least from tests) after the SCG. You can't have your number 5 basically contributing nothing time after time. Morgan is not as good a fielder but he is still good so Colly is not too much of a loss. I would also guess they'll go Bell 5 Morgan 6.

not as if collingwood not being in the XI will stop you guys from putting him in the slips...

 

[Howe_zat]

Why consider playing five bowlers? You'll be going into Sydney 2-1 up in the series, you only need a draw and you've won the series. And it's hardly as if the English have struggled to bowl us out...

True, which is why I would get behind a decision to pick Morgan. But I feel that England would have done well to go in with five bowlers for much of this series. I wrote my piece on it just before Perth and I stand by it, I think if Bresnan had played over Colly at Perth we may have made more of a game of it, if not pushed for the win.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm not quite sure I see the logic. If it's a must win situation, you'd want the batsman with the most chance to score runs. If you think Collingwood is that option, then he should play no matter what. If not, he should be dropped and whoever is a replacement should come in regardless of the situation.

I'd still back Colly more than Morgan if the chips were down, but that comes also with a recognition that the writing does look on the wall for his career this time (35 soon and not like he's a lavishly gifted batsman anyway) and if Morgan is the next cab off the rank blooding him with the urn retained in the choice with an eye on the future.

 

[Goughy]

If England win then Id keep Collingwood for the 5th Test. No point messing around with selection. The aim was to retain the Ashes which would have been done and Id stay with the team that got you there. Give him the 5th, the WC and then reassess at the start of the English summer.

 

[Goughy]

Talking to an old Aussie a couple of days ago and saw it mentioned today in a piece and both suggested that Haddin should be the next captain of Aus.

His point was that he is a good captain and as he is a country boy he would add a toughness to the team that seems to be lacking. I have no idea if any of that is true as I know next to nothing about Haddin but it was interesting to listen to the guy as he a) knew more tham most I talk to about cricket and b) seemed to see the same changes in the Aussie team that I do.

So, my question to those that know more about Haddin than me, is he a realistic option as skipper? and if so, what qualities does he bring?

 

[Prince EWS]

Talking to an old Aussie a couple of days ago and saw it mentioned today in a piece the Haddin should be the next captain of Aus.

His point was that he is a good captain and as he is a country boy he would add a toughness to the team that seems to be lacking. I have no idea if any of that is true as I know next to nothing about Haddin bit it was interesting to listen to the guy as he a) knew more tham most I talk to about cricket and b) seemed to see the same changes in the Aussie team that I do.

So, my question to those that know more about Haddin than me, is he a realistic option as skipper? and if so, what qualities does he bring?

Out of the ten non-Ponting players in the current eleven, he'd definitely be my pick should Ponting go. I've seen him captain NSW a few times in one day cricket - he's a bit unconventional but you could never accuse him of letting the game drift. I wouldn't say he was perfect tactically but he's definitely a thinking captain, which isn't a quality many would perhaps associate with his character. IIRC, his performance as a batsman improved significantly when he got the captaincy, too.

I will add though that I think there's basically no chance of it ever happening.

 

[Uppercut]

Hmm, giving Clarke the captaincy doesn't look the best move to me. Would provide too much continuity in a regime that really needs a shake-up and with Australia's policy of retaining ex-captains, if it all goes wrong you're forced to either deal with it or risk deeply undermining a player that should be a big part of Australian cricket for the next few years. Plus it means retaining him in the ODI side indefinitely.

Might be forced to do it anyway, don't know enough about the other options to offer a real opinion. A couple of years back I'd have wanted it given to Katich but that's not especially feasible anymore. Retaining Ponting until after the World Cup looks the least-bad option from here but it's really only postponing the difficult decision.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hmm, giving Clarke the captaincy doesn't look the best move to me. Would provide too much continuity in a regime that really needs a shake-up and with Australia's policy of retaining ex-captains, if it all goes wrong you're forced to either deal with it or risk deeply undermining a player that should be a big part of Australian cricket for the next few years. Plus it means retaining him in the ODI side indefinitely.

Might be forced to do it anyway, don't know enough about the other options to offer a real opinion. A couple of years back I'd have wanted it given to Katich but that's not especially feasible anymore. Retaining Ponting until after the World Cup looks the least-bad option from here but it's really only postponing the difficult decision.

Just making sure - but you know my post was about Haddin and not Clarke, right?

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah I'd started typing it before you posted.

The merit of making Clarke captain is what's relevant, unfortunately..

 

[Ruckus]

I wonder what Watson would be like as captaincy material. Just in terms of an image, Watson looks like a captain to me.

 

[Goughy]

Yeah I'd started typing it before you posted.

The merit of making Clarke captain is what's relevant, unfortunately..

Not relevant to the question I asked though

 

[Howe_zat]

Out of the ten non-Ponting players in the current eleven, he'd definitely be my pick should Ponting go. I've seen him captain NSW a few times in one day cricket - he's a bit unconventional but you could never accuse him of letting the game drift. I wouldn't say he was perfect tactically but he's definitely a thinking captain, which isn't a quality many would perhaps associate with his character. IIRC, his performance as a batsman improved significantly when he got the captaincy, too.

I will add though that I think there's basically no chance of it ever happening.

Of course not. His merits as a captain are irrelevant. He's not the best young batsman in the side, and so cannot be captain.

There are rules for this sort of thing, you know.

 

[Uppercut]

Not relevant to the question I asked though

But it's related.. whether something is a good decision or not is 50% determined by the alternative.

 

[Jono]

Haddin bats like an absolute fool in situations where some sensible batting is needed. Sure play your natural game, but if ******** shots is your natural game than you are rubbish. And Haddin isn't rubbish.

Maybe Haddin's game would change if he was given the captaincy, and he'd bat more responsibly ala MS Dhoni. But a change in batting would definitely be necessary.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah great, pick another bloke who bats like a **** when under the pump.

 

[fezzie]

from pat symcox twitter


Wonder if Trott and Prior are talking a bit of Afrikaans at the wicket!

I see South Africa is putting the Aussies to the sword again. Can Prior make it 4 fifties for the Saffas?


enjoy

 

[MW1304]

from pat symcox twitter


Wonder if Trott and Prior are talking a bit of Afrikaans at the wicket!

I see South Africa is putting the Aussies to the sword again. Can Prior make it 4 fifties for the Saffas?


enjoy

*ahem* *watches tumbleweed roll past*

I'm pretty sure Colly will remain for the next test whatever happens, and quite frankly i hope he does. Its just the kind of situation where he has previously flourished and the England staff will certainly think he can produce..."backs-to-the-wall" and all that...

Best case scenario would be us winning this match, then we go to Sydney and skittle 'em, before being put under the pump ourselves, causing good old Colly to produce a coma-inducing high-pressure 100 to put ourselves in a commanding position, signing off from Test cricket in (his) style, before the obligatory Swann 2nd innings 5-fer. Woohoo to my imagination.

 

[fezzie]

collingwood is just playing for a MBE.
he knows he doesnt have to do anything to get one...what a player

if he had a year like sachin or amla, he would be named the king.

 

[GIMH]

He already has an MBE so why the hell would he be playing for one?