Ricky ponting should give up

[honestbharani]

I agree Ganguly was a much better captain, but he had a better team too. I don't agree his technical shortcomings were solely responsible for his dip in performances. He'd already been on tours to England, South Africa and Australia prior to the captaincy, and was averaging 50 IIRC when taking charge. He also averaged close to 50 after the captaincy was taken away. Mere technical shortcomings is not the explanation.

I do think that, apart from England, he was not successful to any great extent in the other away tours... And that just continued, didn't it? And he still had good tours to England later on...

 

[Furball]

I agree Ganguly was a much better captain, but he had a better team too. I don't agree his technical shortcomings were solely responsible for his dip in performances. He'd already been on tours to England, South Africa and Australia prior to the captaincy, and was averaging 50 IIRC when taking charge. He also averaged close to 50 after the captaincy was taken away. Mere technical shortcomings is not the explanation.

Nah, looking at his away record and his FC record I doubt Ganguly would have averaged much more than 45 had he never been captain. And the drop in Ganguly's personal performance is more than made up for by the performance of the team during his tenure.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Nah, looking at his away record and his FC record I doubt Ganguly would have averaged much more than 45 had he never been captain. And the drop in Ganguly's personal performance is more than made up for by the performance of the team during his tenure.

I'm not sure, but I think he averaged 48 or thereabouts after the captaincy was taken away from him. Nevertheless, my point stands. You've got to weigh the risk against the potential benefits. It isn't as simplistic as saying that you need to rid a particular player of the captaincy to benefit the team, no questions asked.

 

[Burgey]

I do think that, apart from England, he was not successful to any great extent in the other away tours... And that just continued, didn't it? And he still had good tours to England later on...

Made a wonderful hundred in Brisbane iirc. I think he was captain then.

 

[Spark]

Watson must move if given the captaincy

Watson? ITSTL

 

[Furball]

Watson must move if given the captaincy

Watson? ITSTL

To be fair, the article basically eliminates everyone else in the side, making it Watson's by default.

 

[Spark]

I'd rather we gave it to Haddin for two or three years than Watson. I really don't see very much in Watson at all that would make him a leader.

 

[vcs]

The argument that a team sometimes benefits more from a batsman playing to his full potential than him captaining the side isn't entirely fool proof. The fly in the ointment is that you're not just gaining from that batsman left free to benefit the team with his batting, you're just replacing him with another fall guy. Tendulkar didn't average significantly lesser as captain than as a pure batsman, but the man who replaced him surely did. Ganguly was never the same batsman he was before he was made captain. So you had a Tendulkar averaging roughly the same as he did before the captaincy, but also Ganguly's game falling apart significantly. It isn't a simple case of "spare the batsman". Its more a case of finding a guy who doesn't fall apart with the captaincy, and if that's not possible, deciding which batsman you'd rather sacrifice.

This is a risk Australia need to weigh carefully before deciding on whom they pick to relieve Ponting.

Good point.

North should be the solution then. Can't get any worse.

 

[honestbharani]

Made a wonderful hundred in Brisbane iirc. I think he was captain then.

yeah but that bowling line up was just as bad as the current Aussie one..


Seriously speaking, I do think Ganguly's batting suffered when he was captain but he was never gonna be SO GOOD that we were missing something. And the fact that the team and esp. Sachin and Dravid, got going so much meant we really won more than what we lost by having as captain.

 

[smash84]

The argument that a team sometimes benefits more from a batsman playing to his full potential than him captaining the side isn't entirely fool proof. The fly in the ointment is that you're not just gaining from that batsman left free to benefit the team with his batting, you're just replacing him with another fall guy. Tendulkar didn't average significantly lesser as captain than as a pure batsman, but the man who replaced him surely did. Ganguly was never the same batsman he was before he was made captain. So you had a Tendulkar averaging roughly the same as he did before the captaincy, but also Ganguly's game falling apart significantly. It isn't a simple case of "spare the batsman". Its more a case of finding a guy who doesn't fall apart with the captaincy, and if that's not possible, deciding which batsman you'd rather sacrifice.

This is a risk Australia need to weigh carefully before deciding on whom they pick to relieve Ponting.

Very well stated. Especially the part in bold.

I too personally think it is more a case of finding a guy who doesn't fall apart with the captaincy. Imran, Dhoni, Cronje, Fleming, Allan Border, (Strauss looks decent too although not yet in the same class as these guys) are some of the guys who fit the bill.

 

[Shri]

Dhoni's ODI batting is never going to be the same again though. And he really has cut down on the aggression after becoming the captain.

 

[vcs]

yeah but that bowling line up was just as bad as the current Aussie one..


Seriously speaking, I do think Ganguly's batting suffered when he was captain but he was never gonna be SO GOOD that we were missing something. And the fact that the team and esp. Sachin and Dravid, got going so much meant we really won more than what we lost by having as captain.

Please tell me you are exaggerating for effect there...

 

[smash84]

Please tell me you are exaggerating for effect there...

I doubt

 

[vcs]

An attack of Gillespie + Lee + MacGill + one crap bowler (Bracken/Bichel/Williams) >>> Australia's current attack.

 

[honestbharani]

An attack of Gillespie + Lee + MacGill + one crap bowler (Bracken/Bichel/Williams) >>> Australia's current attack.

yeah I was exaggerating but they were not SO MUCH better coz Gillespie was the only one who was really good back then.. Lee was NOT the lead bowler he became later on. He was simply the bouncer/yorker/I have NFI bowler.. And MacGill, well, was MacGill.. Indians were never gonna be worried by spin, even if it was Warney there...

 

[Burgey]

yeah I was exaggerating but they were not SO MUCH better coz Gillespie was the only one who was really good back then.. Lee was NOT the lead bowler he became later on. He was simply the bouncer/yorker/I have NFI bowler.. And MacGill, well, was MacGill.. Indians were never gonna be worried by spin, even if it was Warney there...

AWTA. Was at Sydney for the test. Was a **** attack tbh. Iirc Dizzy was out for that match. I remember Lee getting someone out third over off s no ball, then getting an edge next ball and that ****** Katich dropped it in the gully. I think Bracken opened the bowling - the most feminine test opening bowler BB (Before Broad). I think Brad Williams played instead of Dizzy, or Bichel. Was a crap attack tbh.

Then Tendulkar came in, got a standing ovation from the Aussie "haters" then rewarded us with the most boring double hundred in history.

Thank God for some VVS action. If it wasn't Waugh's last test I'd have fallen asleep tbh.

 

[honestbharani]

AWTA. Was at Sydney for the test. Was a **** attack tbh. Iirc Dizzy was out for that match. I remember Lee getting someone out third over off s no ball, then getting an edge next ball and that ****** Katich dropped it in the gully. I think Bracken opened the bowling - the most feminine test opening bowler BB (Before Broad). I think Brad Williams played instead of Dizzy, or Bichel. Was a crap attack tbh.

Then Tendulkar came in, got a standing ovation from the Aussie "haters" then rewarded us with the most boring double hundred in history.

Thank God for some VVS action. If it wasn't Waugh's last test I'd have fallen asleep tbh.

VVS was Godly the second morning of that test though.. If it was me, I would have felt I got my money's worth from that session of Laxman's batting alone..

 

[vcs]

I remember Gillespie getting Laxman bowled in that game.

EDIT : Just checked the stats, yes he did.

And at the "most feminine Test opening bowler BB".

 

[Burgey]

VVS was Godly the second morning of that test though.. If it was me, I would have felt I got my money's worth from that session of Laxman's batting alone..

Oh yeah he was. That's what I meant by thank god for him. He livened it up.

And cheers VCS for checking that

 

[Blaze 18]

AWTA. Was at Sydney for the test. Was a **** attack tbh. Iirc Dizzy was out for that match. I remember Lee getting someone out third over off s no ball, then getting an edge next ball and that ****** Katich dropped it in the gully. I think Bracken opened the bowling - the most feminine test opening bowler BB (Before Broad). I think Brad Williams played instead of Dizzy, or Bichel. Was a crap attack tbh.

Then Tendulkar came in, got a standing ovation from the Aussie "haters" then rewarded us with the most boring double hundred in history.

Thank God for some VVS action. If it wasn't Waugh's last test I'd have fallen asleep tbh.