Ricky ponting should give up

[Burgey]

Yeah thats a bit tough but its upto the individual really there are many examples in history where people have, after leading the country for long, played under others. Dravid is the most recent example. Of course he left on his own. Then there is Ganguly. One could name many others.

Its CA's responsibility really. They made him captain, not an inspired choice from day one whatever the results may show, and they need to sit down with the great man (and that mis-used title does sit well with Ponting the batsman) and work this out with understanding and consideration. Then the incumbent and Ponting himself will have to make sure it works best in the individual's and the team's best interests.

But its far from impossible - just that everyone concerned needs to be handled with the respect and consideration they surely deserve.

Yes, and to set their egos aside too.

 

[smash84]

Yeah thats a bit tough but its upto the individual really there are many examples in history where people have, after leading the country for long, played under others. Dravid is the most recent example. Of course he left on his own. Then there is Ganguly. One could name many others.

Yes there are lots of examples.

Almost the whole Pak cricket team almost throughout their history. Even under Imran there were lots of ex-captains.

 

[smash84]

Yes, and to set their egos aside too.

a very tough ask.

 

[honestbharani]

Yes, and to set their egos aside too.

Definitely get the impression, from afar admittedly, that it is a tough thing for Ponting.. A very tough thing...

 

[smash84]

Definitely get the impression, from afar admittedly, that it is a tough thing for Ponting.. A very tough thing...

And I wouldn't blame him too much for it. After all he would be the first aussie captain in a long time to be doing that (if he does).

 

[honestbharani]

And I wouldn't blame him too much for it. After all he would be the first aussie captain in a long time to be doing that (if he does).

I don't think it is about that. I just think Ponting, at least to me, comes across as a guy with immense pride and sometimes the line between that and ego just dims down so much and he crosses over... His statements in the media about India (hey, there is a reason why so many of the Indians enjoy having a go at Australia and their captain), the way he keeps harping on about spirit of cricket when his own side don't follow it all the time, his outbursts in England about Pratt and recently to Strauss.... He juz comes across as a guy who often thinks everything he does is right and as I said, the line between pride and ego is a very thin one for him, at least IMO and he crosses it often.

 

[Burgey]

Definitely get the impression, from afar admittedly, that it is a tough thing for Ponting.. A very tough thing...

Yeah, well he's been top dog for so long, it's hard to hand over the big laundry press to someone else. He's also a fair bit older than many of the others who've played on after relinquishing the captaincy.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, well he's been top dog for so long, it's hard to hand over the big laundry press to someone else. He's also a fair bit older than many of the others who've played on after relinquishing the captaincy.

Yeah and while I think a lot of times the sort of pride he takes in his cricket helps him, this might be one of those instances when it doesn't..


Gotta say, TBF to Ponting, he also comes across as a very honest trier in the game.. AndI am sure he will fight with all he has got to regain some of his form. Won't rule out a century or two in his next 3 or 4 innings in the Ashes..

 

[GotSpin]

I don't think it is about that. I just think Ponting, at least to me, comes across as a guy with immense pride and sometimes the line between that and ego just dims down so much and he crosses over... His statements in the media about India (hey, there is a reason why so many of the Indians enjoy having a go at Australia and their captain), the way he keeps harping on about spirit of cricket when his own side don't follow it all the time, his outbursts in England about Pratt and recently to Strauss.... He juz comes across as a guy who often thinks everything he does is right and as I said, the line between pride and ego is a very thin one for him, at least IMO and he crosses it often.

Reckon a few too many people get arrogance and willingness to succeed mixed up with regard to Ponting

 

[honestbharani]

Reckon a few too many people get arrogance and willingness to succeed mixed up with regard to Ponting

lol.. I happen to think he gets it mixed up himself quite a few times.. As I explained above, it also means the guy is gonna try harder than most normal people in such situations and who knows, it may well give a very positive result.


Still think the best case scenario is that Clarke gets the captaincy and Ponting continues as a batsman in the Tests and ODIs. Maybe give up ODIs after the WC?

 

[GotSpin]

I think he'll give up the shorter format. Seems much more passionate with tests

 

[honestbharani]

Would make sense too, if the selectors are gonna dump him from captaincy after the WC, which looks likely ATM... He is, for whatever reasons, pretty good as an ODI captain than as a test captain and I am sure CA are not looking to change the captain just before the WC. So after the WC, I see Clarke taking over in all formats of the game and Ponting continuing in tests while retiring from ODIs. Would be interesting to see if they will move Ponting somewhere in the order or still have him at 3... I would advocate the latter and I also think Cam White is good enough to be given a shot in all 3 formats of the game. I seriously think he should have been picked ahead of Steve Smith for this 3rd test at Perth. He might well be groomed as the next thing, esp. if Clarke continues to have back troubles.

 

[GotSpin]

Would have Khawaja ahead of either as a batsmen.

 

[smash84]

Would have Khawaja ahead of either as a batsmen.

true,,,,,,,from what i have seen he is very good and very stylish. Definitely would want to see him at international level.

 

[honestbharani]

Would have Khawaja ahead of either as a batsmen.

But won't you want your #6 to also be able to contribute with the ball, esp. as a spinner, given that is where most of your weakness is...

 

[G.I.Joe]

The argument that a team sometimes benefits more from a batsman playing to his full potential than him captaining the side isn't entirely fool proof. The fly in the ointment is that you're not just gaining from that batsman left free to benefit the team with his batting, you're just replacing him with another fall guy. Tendulkar didn't average significantly lesser as captain than as a pure batsman, but the man who replaced him surely did. Ganguly was never the same batsman he was before he was made captain. So you had a Tendulkar averaging roughly the same as he did before the captaincy, but also Ganguly's game falling apart significantly. It isn't a simple case of "spare the batsman". Its more a case of finding a guy who doesn't fall apart with the captaincy, and if that's not possible, deciding which batsman you'd rather sacrifice.

This is a risk Australia need to weigh carefully before deciding on whom they pick to relieve Ponting.

 

[G.I.Joe]

The argument that a team sometimes benefits more from a batsman playing to his full potential than him captaining the side isn't entirely fool proof. The fly in the ointment is that you're not just gaining from that batsman left free to benefit the team with his batting, you're just replacing him with another fall guy. Tendulkar didn't average significantly lesser as captain than as a pure batsman, but the man who replaced him surely did. Ganguly was never the same batsman he was before he was made captain. So you had a Tendulkar averaging roughly the same as he did before the captaincy, but also Ganguly's game falling apart significantly. It isn't a simple case of "spare the batsman". Its more a case of finding a guy who doesn't fall apart with the captaincy, and if that's not possible, deciding which batsman you'd rather sacrifice.

This is a risk Australia need to weigh carefully before deciding on whom they pick to relieve Ponting.

 

[Shri]

North should be the solution then. Can't get any worse.

 

[honestbharani]

The argument that a team sometimes benefits more from a batsman playing to his full potential than him captaining the side isn't entirely fool proof. The fly in the ointment is that you're not just gaining from that batsman left free to benefit the team with his batting, you're just replacing him with another fall guy. Tendulkar didn't average significantly lesser as captain than as a pure batsman, but the man who replaced him surely did. Ganguly was never the same batsman he was before he was made captain. So you had a Tendulkar averaging roughly the same as he did before the captaincy, but also Ganguly's game falling apart significantly. It isn't a simple case of "spare the batsman". Its more a case of finding a guy who doesn't fall apart with the captaincy, and if that's not possible, deciding which batsman you'd rather sacrifice.

This is a risk Australia need to weigh carefully before deciding on whom they pick to relieve Ponting.

But Ganguly was much better as a captain than Sachin, at least IMO and it was worth risking his fall in average because, again IMO it was going to come down anyways as there were some technical aspects of his game that was going to be exploited as he spent more and more time in international cricket... I really feel India did benefit by having Sachin concentrate on his batting alone and also with Ganguly doing a terrific job as captain, in terms of backing players with talent etc. etc. and getting rid of the zonal politics to an extent...

 

[G.I.Joe]

But Ganguly was much better as a captain than Sachin, at least IMO and it was worth risking his fall in average because, again IMO it was going to come down anyways as there were some technical aspects of his game that was going to be exploited as he spent more and more time in international cricket... I really feel India did benefit by having Sachin concentrate on his batting alone and also with Ganguly doing a terrific job as captain, in terms of backing players with talent etc. etc. and getting rid of the zonal politics to an extent...

I agree Ganguly was a much better captain, but he had a better team too. I don't agree his technical shortcomings were solely responsible for his dip in performances. He'd already been on tours to England, South Africa and Australia prior to the captaincy, and was averaging 50 IIRC when taking charge. He also averaged close to 50 after the captaincy was taken away. Mere technical shortcomings is not the explanation.