Ricky ponting should give up

[GotSpin]

While not an outstanding tactician I often feel sorry for old Punter. Not only does he have the responsibility of leading our batting from the front, captaining a team that is a shell of it's former self but the criticism he cops from the media must be overwhelming. Ponting is not without his faults, but when he retires and in the years to come we'll probably look back and realise just how important he was for Australian cricket.

 

[Debris]

Ponting is being held to a higher standard than other captains. He might be mediocre but so is every other captain in world cricket at the moment. I can't think of a really good captain in international cricket at the moment so maybe they are harder to find that people think.

 

[Blaze 18]

I tend not to judge captains solely based on results, as results are largely dependent on the team a captain has at his disposal. Captains, in my opinion, should be rated on the tactical acumen they possess, their temperament in the face of adversity and their ability to motivate a team to bring the best out of them.


Coming to Ricky Ponting, I think he is okay as captain. You cannot attribute the losses (or the wins) solely to his captaincy. Sometimes you need a bit of luck as captain - MS Dhoni's decision to give the ball to Joginder Sharma in the final of the 2007 T20 World Cup was hailed as a great move after the match, but that was only because India went on to win that game. Maybe Richie Benaud (?) is right : captaincy is ninety-five percent luck and five percent skill.

 

[honestbharani]

Ponting is being held to a higher standard than other captains. He might be mediocre but so is every other captain in world cricket at the moment. I can't think of a really good captain in international cricket at the moment so maybe they are harder to find that people think.

Well, he brings most of it onto himself.. I mean, they set defensive fields (nothing unusual or from the left field) in 2004 against India in India and has the bowlers who can hold a line with the ball and suddenly, he has discovered "new age cricket".. He comes to India again in 2008 and struts that line, what do you think? We are going to stand up and applaud his cricket acumen??? Brumby and SJS have seen the game over several years and even they think he is very ordinary. I think he did a lot of stuff, some of which MIGHT be thought of as innovative and aggressive, but basically he had 2 of the best bowlers of ALL time and they got the job done more often than not whatever field they were given. And Warney set his own fields most of the time anyways... It was plainly obvious to quite a lot of us here in CW that he is a very very ordinary captain from the time he took over and it is no surprise to us that he is plumbing the depths now that the talent has deserted his (mainly bowling) side...


As a batsman, he is class and he SHOULD give himself the chance to bat with a little less pressure by giving up the captaincy and concentrating on being that solid #3 that Australia need right now.

 

[Ilovecric]

Ponting is still one of the best batsmen in the world.

with a 42 avg ?

 

[centurymaker]

with a 42 avg ?

Whats wrong with an avg of 42? Thats still good.

 

[The Sean]

Think you misunderstood him there. "Sarcastic" is probably the best way to describe the first 3/4 of that post.

I thought sarcastic was the only way to describe it but hey...

Ha ha fair enough - I read something in the post that wasn't there.

 

[Burgey]

Nonsense, he's a great ODI captain. He had Warne suspended a couple of months before the '03 WC, he has never lost a WC match as captain, he has won the Champions Trophy in '09 with his young team, won ODI series in India (which very few teams have managed) etc. etc.

Actually mate, he had Warne suspended a couple of hours before the 03 WC.

It's pretty astonishing to think if we lose our first match at the 2011 WC it will be the first loss in 12 years at that tournament.

I don't think anyone can say much of a bad word about Ponting's ODI captaincy. It seems, as Brumby says, that he's looking for the miracle play with his field placements these days though. Having said that, the way the bowlers are going at the moment, putting two slips and a gully in is really the "miracle" field.

The team is playing as though everyone is under pressure and playing for their spots. The bowlers seem to be striving too hard to take wickets, instead of hitting the towel and being patient, the batsmen look edgy (pun intended) and there seems a general nervousness about them.

Ponting needs to step up here. Set more orthodox fields and challenge his bowlers to bowl to them. And his bowlers need to respond to that by actually bowling with some control.

He's never been a "great" test captain tactically, imo. But you can't blame him if the fellas entrusted with flinging leather can't bowl an over of decent line and length.

 

[SJS]

Whats wrong with an avg of 42? Thats still good.

That's right. It's a pretty decent average and I have absolutely no doubt it would be much higher if he weren't leading the side which is now a huge strain for obvious reasons . Anyone remember how Sachin's average went down after things went wrong with India under him. India did the smart thing. They just realized they needed Sachin the batsman much more than the risk involved with trying out a new captain and it's easy to forget with time how new Ganguly was to the job of captaincy once

 

[Burgey]

That's right. It's a pretty decent average and I have absolutely no doubt it would be much higher if he weren't leading the side which is now a huge strain for obvious reasons . Anyone remember how Sachin's average went down after things went wrong with India under him. India did the smart thing. They just realized they needed Sachin the batsman much more than the risk involved with trying out a new captain and it's easy to forget with time how new Ganguly was to the job of captaincy once

Making a good point there SJS.

 

[smash84]

Actually mate, he had Warne suspended a couple of hours before the 03 WC.

It's pretty astonishing to think if we lose our first match at the 2011 WC it will be the first loss in 12 years at that tournament.

I don't think anyone can say much of a bad word about Ponting's ODI captaincy. It seems, as Brumby says, that he's looking for the miracle play with his field placements these days though. Having said that, the way the bowlers are going at the moment, putting two slips and a gully in is really the "miracle" field.

The team is playing as though everyone is under pressure and playing for their spots. The bowlers seem to be striving too hard to take wickets, instead of hitting the towel and being patient, the batsmen look edgy (pun intended) and there seems a general nervousness about them.

Ponting needs to step up here. Set more orthodox fields and challenge his bowlers to bowl to them. And his bowlers need to respond to that by actually bowling with some control.

He's never been a "great" test captain tactically, imo. But you can't blame him if the fellas entrusted with flinging leather can't bowl an over of decent line and length.

Well said.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Whats wrong with an avg of 42? Thats still good.

Don't worry mate, this guy didn't start the thread so there could be serious conversation about the topic. Everyone else has derailed it by actually talking about it seriously. He just wanted to have a go at Ponting.

 

[Jono]

While not an outstanding tactician I often feel sorry for old Punter. Not only does he have the responsibility of leading our batting from the front, captaining a team that is a shell of it's former self but the criticism he cops from the media must be overwhelming. Ponting is not without his faults, but when he retires and in the years to come we'll probably look back and realise just how important he was for Australian cricket.

Welcome to the life of Lara, Sachin (for a brief while) and Dravid.

 

[smash84]

Welcome to the life of Lara, Sachin (for a brief while) and Dravid.

so true about Lara and Sachin. Not too sure about Dravid in that list.

 

[The Sean]

Making a good point there SJS.

In other news, the sun rises in the east.

 

[Burgey]

Welcome to the life of Lara, Sachin (for a brief while) and Dravid.

How was India under Tendulkar a shell of it's former self though?

 

[SJS]

In other news, the sun rises in the east.

There are still some clouds hovering around :-)

 

[SJS]

How was India under Tendulkar a shell of it's former self though?

You are spot on. Of course it wasn't.

That bit is not relevant for the comparison. Its just about how captaincy can affect, sometimes, even the greatest of players and instead of criticising them for not being great captains which we naively expect all great players to be, it is much more advisable to cut the losses and get the player back and look elsewhere for a leader.

 

[Burgey]

You are spot on. Of course it wasn't.

That bit is not relevant for the comparison. Its just about how captaincy can affect, sometimes, even the greatest of players and instead of criticising them for not being great captains which we naively expect all great players to be, it is much more advisable to cut the losses and get the player back and look elsewhere for a leader.

Yeah, I wonder over the long term whether Bradman is partly responsible for this "a great player means they must be a great captain" thing. Imran too. Being the team's best player certainly doesn't make you the best skipper.

I suppose the question for Ponting is whether he is capable within himself of playing under another captain. It's no small thing, I imagine, to swallow one's pride and do so. Having said that, HJ mentioned he's said he would do it, and thre are precedents such as Ian Chappell stepping down in favour of his brother in 75-76.

 

[SJS]

Yeah, I wonder over the long term whether Bradman is partly responsible for this "a great player means they must be a great captain" thing. Imran too. Being the team's best player certainly doesn't make you the best skipper.

I suppose the question for Ponting is whether he is capable within himself of playing under another captain. It's no small thing, I imagine, to swallow one's pride and do so. Having said that, HJ mentioned he's said he would do it, and thre are precedents such as Ian Chappell stepping down in favour of his brother in 75-76.

Yeah thats a bit tough but its upto the individual really there are many examples in history where people have, after leading the country for long, played under others. Dravid is the most recent example. Of course he left on his own. Then there is Ganguly. One could name many others.

Its CA's responsibility really. They made him captain, not an inspired choice from day one whatever the results may show, and they need to sit down with the great man (and that mis-used title does sit well with Ponting the batsman) and work this out with understanding and consideration. Then the incumbent and Ponting himself will have to make sure it works best in the individual's and the team's best interests.

But its far from impossible - just that everyone concerned needs to be handled with the respect and consideration they surely deserve.