*Official* Third Test at the WACA

[NUFAN]

Fine 70 in his last match. And I'm not using his 59 as justification of him batting 6 for Australia, that just helps the case. Again refer to runs against Pakistan attack of Asif, Aamer and Gul and his 700 odd runs last season at 70.

You do realize that he was batting at 8 for Australia against Pakistan and his batting performances since those Test Matches have actually declined.

Smith made 11 runs off 19 balls against Amir. 13 off 23 from Asif, and 20 from 21 balls off Gul before being bowled in that 77. I liked that particular innings as it was what was needed at the time, but do you really think he has the game to succeed batting in the same or similar circumstances as North has had?

His 700 at 70 in 13 innings was an excellent return, but why hasn't he been able to replicate anything remotely similar in the 6 or 7 innings he has batted in recently?

1 final point - http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/48705-5th-6th-best-long-form-batsmen-australia-2.html - why only the 1 vote for Smith??

 

[Sylvester]

You do realize that he was batting at 8 for Australia against Pakistan and his batting performances since those Test Matches have actually declined.

Smith made 11 runs off 19 balls against Amir. 13 off 23 from Asif, and 20 from 21 balls off Gul before being bowled in that 77. I liked that particular innings as it was what was needed at the time, but do you really think he has the game to succeed batting in the same or similar circumstances as North has had?

Also his 700 at 70 in 13 innings was an excellent return, but why hasn't he been able to replicate anything remotely in the same in 6 or 7 innings he has batted in recently?

Yes I know he was batting at 8 because he was picked as a spinner.

Yes I do believe he has the game to do it, a number of his innings last season were under pressure situation and again the England A game where he came in at 5/50. That is all we have to judge him on until he is picked in the Australian team as a batter.

Remotely? He has made a 59 and 70 which are remotely simialr to me. And again if we are going on the back of 6-7 innings then Ferguson hasn't made a 50 and Khawaja only has one 50. Smith has a 59 and a 70.

 

[iamdavid]

Hughes
Watson
Ponting
Hussey
Clarke
--------------either
a) Haddin
Smith

b) Dussey
Haddin

Harris
Hauritz
Siddle or Cameron or Copeland
Bollinger
.

I hope they go with something like this. Dussey may be getting on, but he's the best batsman in the country outside the test team. They picked Darren Lehmann to replace Mark Waugh for Ashes 02/03 despite him being 33, because he was the best candidate, it's the same situation now. An Ashes series is not the time to be experimenting with youth, Khawaja and Smith will have their time.

Ideally I'd want to play O'Keefe, I don't think he's any worse than Hauritz with the ball. And at least on days when the pitch isn't turning and he's totally ineffective he'd still contribute with the bat and in the field, but there's pretty much no chance of that given he's been playing grade cricket.

Stick with Dougeh...he was clearly underdone but it was one poor game and he's been our best bowler all year. Punt Siddle, replace him with one of Cameron, Hilfenhaus or Copeland....ffs not Peter George, he's not ready yet.

 

[pup11]

None of the young batsmen have really done anything of note to grab a place international the team, but that's where your gut instinct as a selector comes into play.
Their job should be to pick and then back the young blokes that have the potential to have a long test careers, likes of Smith, Hughes are long term prospects and backing them for a extended period makes much more sense then wasting time on blokes like North.
Also can't understand why people want to see Johnson back in the team, he was bowling with absolutely no conviction at the Gabba and a similar performance from him at Perth is something we just can't afford.

 

[Prince EWS]

None of the young batsmen have really done anything of note to grab a place international the team

I really hope you just neglected to post "in the last two or three rounds of Shield cricket" in your post or something, because Hughes, Smith and Khawaja have definitely done plenty of note in their careers.

 

[NUFAN]

Yes I know he was batting at 8 because he was picked as a spinner.

Yes I do believe he has the game to do it, a number of his innings last season were under pressure situation and again the England A game where he came in at 5/50. That is all we have to judge him on until he is picked in the Australian team as a batter.

Remotely? He has made a 59 and 70 which are remotely simialr to me. And again if we are going on the back of 6-7 innings then Ferguson hasn't made a 50 and Khawaja only has one 50. Smith has a 59 and a 70.

It's a sad situation if we are getting excited about scores of 59 from a cricketer who is expected to bat at 6 for Australia.

I'm not just going back 6 or 7 innings for fun, I'm looking at Smith's performances in First Class Cricket since making the Australian team as a bowling all rounder against Pakistan.

Smith batting performances were quite poor overall, however I would say he justified his inclusion in the side as a number 8.

You would think that since he got dropped he would need to work on his game and not get another chance until he had improved. Where are the improvements???

 

[wpdavid]

Real shame for both Broad and Katich to now be missing the rest of this series. Much of Broad's good work went unrewarded in the first two Tests, and I thought he bowled very well with the new ball in Australia's second innings in Adelaide. His potential of runs at 8 will also be missed.

Katich bravely battled through that last Test, he's 35 now, so will be interersting to see if he can work his way back into the side, guess it will depend on how Hughes, or whoever, does as his replacement.

Surely Katich is history now - sad way to finish, but there you go.

As for Broad, yes he's a loss and I 100% agree with your comments about his bowling being unrewarded. I was astonished to hear Agnew this morning touting Bresnan as his replacement on the basis that he could bowl into the wind at Perth. If Tremlett isn't first cab off the ranks for one of the quicks, then why on earth is he in the squad? Even if the Perth wicket isn't what it was, surely Tremlett needs to be in the side and bowling regularly for when there is something on offer. And even on a road, he'll still offer a whole lot more than BFT.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's a sad situation if we are getting excited about scores of 59 from a cricketer who is expected to bat at 6 for Australia.

I'm not just going back 6 or 7 innings for fun, I'm looking at Smith's performances in First Class Cricket since making the Australian team as a bowling all rounder against Pakistan.

Smith batting performances were quite poor overall, however I would say he justified his inclusion in the side as a number 8.

You would think that since he got dropped he would need to work on his game and not get another chance until he had improved. Where are the improvements???

I fear a lot of Smith's problems have stemmed for the fact that the Australian selectors have given him every indication that his avenue into the team is as a bowler who can hit a few runs, so he's devoted all his time since his Test debut to his bowling.

I think it is pretty obvious that the selectors have no intention of picking Smith in a primarily batting role in the Test team any time soon. If he plays it'll be at seven or eight, behind Haddin and bowling a fair bit. To me that doesn't make much sense but it's what the selectors have indicated and I think it could well have contributed to the way Smith's batted of late. Then again, using a sample size of six or seven innings is always a very dire way to go about things so it could just be a bit of an anomaly.

 

[Redbacks]

Broad definitely seems to have the bottle to put in when things get tough. England yet to really be put in such a situation but they could miss his work if the time comes.

 

[Prince EWS]

Surely Katich is history now - sad way to finish, but there you go.

I definitely think he could be back. He's batted all over the shop for Australia and the batting is far from settled so if comes back from injury and his or North's replacement (assuming North will indeed be replaced - brave I know) isn't travelling well, he could definitely slot back in. Australia will be hoping he's played his last Test but I get the feeling he probably hasn't.

 

[Sylvester]

It's a sad situation if we are getting excited about scores of 59 from a cricketer who is expected to bat at 6 for Australia.

I'm not just going back 6 or 7 innings for fun, I'm looking at Smith's performances in First Class Cricket since making the Australian team as a bowling all rounder against Pakistan.

Smith batting performances were quite poor overall, however I would say he justified his inclusion in the side as a number 8.

You would think that since he got dropped he would need to work on his game and not get another chance until he had improved. Where are the improvements???

Again the 59 is coupled with all the other points I have mentioned. Scoring 59 against England A was a heck of a lot better than the other contenders did.

And I'm showing that going on 6 innings is pointless.

First of how do you expect him to work on his game when hes with the ODI setup half the time? And secondly he's only played 2.5 matches, basing anything on that is stupid. And if you want improvments he has 6 wickets at 33 better than what he was picked on so there you go an improvement.

 

[Ruckus]

Broad definitely seems to have the bottle to put in when things get tough. England yet to really be put in such a situation but they could miss his work if the time comes.

I think Tremlett is a much more dangerous bowler than Broad. An attack of Swann, Anderson, Tremlett and Finn actually looks world class to me (perhaps barring Finn, who I still think is quite average). So Broad's exclusion is (more) bad news for Australia imo.

 

[NUFAN]

I fear a lot of Smith's problems have stemmed for the fact that the Australian selectors have given him every indication that his avenue into the team is as a bowler who can hit a few runs, so he's devoted all his time since his Test debut to his bowling.

I think it is pretty obvious that the selectors have no intention of picking Smith in a primarily batting role in the Test team any time soon. If he plays it'll be at seven or eight, behind Haddin and bowling a fair bit. To me that doesn't make much sense but it's what the selectors have indicated and I think it could well have contributed to the way Smith's batted of late. Then again, using a sample size of six or seven innings is always a very dire way to go about things so it could just be a bit of an anomaly.

Bingo. That's my whole point.

FTR I am using his 7 innings this summer plus the 4 against Pakistan to illustrate why he's not a good candidate to bat in the top 6 for Australia. Your thread earlier showed only 1 person picked Smith as either the 5th or 6th best batsman in Australia. Cosgrove got 7 votes, even Tim Paine got 2!

 

[Redbacks]

I think Tremlett is a much more dangerous bowler than Broad. An attack of Swann, Anderson, Tremlett and Finn actually looks world class to me (perhaps barring Finn, who I still think is quite average). So Broad's exclusion is (more) bad news for Australia imo.

Don't know a lot about Tremlett but if Broad has been selected before him I can only assume it's because he was considered the better performer of the two. Will get a chance to look at Perth I guess.

 

[Sylvester]

Bingo. That's my whole point.

FTR I am using his 7 innings this summer plus the 4 against Pakistan to illustrate why he's not a good candidate to bat in the top 6 for Australia. Your thread earlier showed only 1 person picked Smith as either the 5th or 6th best batsman in Australia. Cosgrove got 7 votes, even Tim Paine got 2!

So because the selectors don't rate him he isn't good enough to bat 6? Well those same selectors deemed Doherty good enough to be our main spinner and North good enough to continue at 6.

And again are we just throwing away all the hard work he did last season for a few games this season and a guy making his test debut? Silly way to write off a player. And as for the votes, other CW members think there are better number 6 out there but does that mean Smith can't bat 6 because a bunch of CW members didn't vote for him? Let's forget all about the runs he makes and just base how a player will go on a few silly internet forum votes.

 

[pup11]

I really hope you just neglected to post "in the last two or three rounds of Shield cricket" in your post or something, because Hughes, Smith and Khawaja have definitely done plenty of note in their careers.

Of course.... that's what I meant. Again its all comes down to the selectors and how they want to take the team forward, because for me the selectors have been pretty narrow minded and short-sighted in their selections, and they have completly relied on stats to pick the team.
The problem with that is, in the current scenario of Australian domestic cricket, stats of a lot a players isn't really the true reflection of their talent.

 

[NUFAN]

Again that 59 shows he can match it with the big boys something that is always highly regarded.

And I'm showing that going on 6 innings is pointless.

First of how do you expect him to work on his game when hes with the ODI setup half the time? And secondly he's only played 2.5 matches, basing anything on that is stupid. And if you want improvments he has 6 wickets at 33 better than what he was picked on so there you go an improvement.

That's an unfortunate problem that White, Ferguson, Marsh etc are faced with. It's definitely not enough reason for me to give him a Test cap again batting in our top 6!

Pick him as a spinner for all I care, but I'm concerned with our batting and this is not the right time for Smith at 6 for Australia.

Also It's 59 runs, not 159, ffs.

 

[Sylvester]

That's an unfortunate problem that White, Ferguson, Marsh etc are faced with. It's definitely not enough reason for me to give him a Test cap again batting in our top 6!

Pick him as a spinner for all I care, but I'm concerned with our batting and this is not the right time for Smith at 6 for Australia.

Also It's 59 runs, not 159, ffs.

Yes 59 runs isn't brilliant but what it shows is he can help if there is a collapse which is problem number 1 for us right now, and he can make runs against international bowlers. Anyway obviously you see it your way, I and other that have picked him at 6 see it the other way.

 

[NUFAN]

So because the selectors don't rate him he isn't good enough to bat 6? Well those same selectors deemed Doherty good enough to be our main spinner and North good enough to continue at 6.

And again are we just throwing away all the hard work he did last season for a few games this season and a guy making his test debut? Silly way to write off a player. And as for the votes, other CW members think there are better number 6 out there but does that mean Smith can't bat 6 because a bunch of CW members didn't vote for him? Let's forget all about the runs he makes and just base how a player will go on a few silly internet forum votes.

I'm not going to change your mind but it's ****ing obvious that if a Cricketer who was in good form gets picked for his country and doesn't do too well batting at number 8, he needs to improve on his batting in order to move up the order.

Also for all his hard work last season he batted 13 times, this season he's batted 7 times so far, it's not that big a difference.

My whole gripe is seeing S Smith named at 6, I don't care too much if someone thinks he's an attacking option and they want to bat him at 8 or perhaps 7 depending on team formation. It just doesn't sit right with me seeing him at 6.

FTR, I haven't written Smith off as a player, no way. He's still very young and has the potential.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm not going to change your mind but it's ****ing obvious that if a Cricketer who was in good form gets picked for his country and doesn't do too well batting at number 8, he needs to improve on his batting in order to move up the order.

Also for all his hard work last season he batted 13 times, this season he's batted 7 times so far, it's not that big a difference.

My whole gripe is seeing S Smith named at 6, I don't care too much if someone thinks he's an attacking option and they want to bat him at 8 or perhaps 7 depending on team formation. It just doesn't sit right with me seeing him at 6.

FTR, I haven't written Smith off as a player, no way. He's still very young and has the potential.

Steve *%&^ing Smith, eh?