***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Ikki]

We aren't talking about tests here. Any side can cause an upset to any side in this format. Ireland, Bangladesh beating Pak, Ind to get to Rd 2 in the 2007 WC, Kenya getting to the 2003 semi final, Sri Lanka winning the 96 WC out of the blue without being favourites, the minnows of 1983 winning against an infinitely stronger WI in the final etc. I wouldn't remove minnows in ODI cricket at all. Such a stupid thing to do.

Is this "Another LOL post"? Yes, teams in knock-out tournaments can go far that's the nature of the format but very very few win them. Tendulkar averages 100+ against Kenya over 9 innings...I think the idea that they can cause upsets is somewhat irrelevant over that kind of sample. If you're pressing that hard I'd include his knock from the semis; however that 1 inning is not the difference between Tendulkar averaging 43 and 45 - the other innings against them and teams like Namibia are.

 

[Ikki]

Are you counting the neutral venues too?

No, I am counting away; as in, the home of the opposition. And I was referring to the stats where we included the Test sides FTR before someone looks it up and it doesn't match. (Although overall, it seems he still has a similar record away.

The difference in home record is 6 in favor of Tendulkar while the difference in away (from home) record is just 2 in favor of Ponting.

They have different homes. What would be more relevant/accurate was showing how good Tendulkar is in relation to other batsmen in his home and how good Ponting is to other batsmen in his.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Actually, I have no problem including Zimbabwe in the period where they were good enough (98-99). Migara brought this up and we included this. However, it actually hinders his figures. Personally, I just removed them for ease; if I wanted to help my argument I could have just used them.

The problem with including the minnows in this instance is that where Tendulkar has played several matches against them; Ponting has usually had 1 inning. It's just easier removing them since the opposition is just so clearly inferior anyway. As I said, Tendulkar is superior but only slight (a bit more than 1 run avg and 5 balls SR). So the statement about Ponting being noticeably worse is exaggerated by quite a bit. Personally, I'd be more concerned with the fact that Tendulkar's away record isn't that good.

In test away record doesnt count because tendu avgs 5 pts more than pointing.how biased are u???for bradman u said he smashed minnows to such a great extent that he shud be given credited 4 it yet u dont do the same for murali.ill repeat what u once told me...ur a crap poster.btw aravinda de silva is a better than every aus player b/c of his wc final performance.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Neutral matches only count when shane warne does well against pak.

 

[Ikki]

In test away record doesnt count because tendu avgs 5 pts more than pointing.how biased are u???for bradman u said he smashed minnows to such a great extent that he shud be given credited 4 it yet u dont do the same for murali.ill repeat what u once told me...ur a crap poster.btw aravinda de silva is a better than every aus player b/c of his wc final performance.

You're making stuff up again. I'll explain again, in the hope that it catches a hinge and finally sticks.

1) You were arguing Ponting's record in Tests is much inferior to Tendulkar's. I showed you that the only poor record Ponting has is in India; which drags his record down below 50; even though he averages above that everywhere bar Eng/Ind. What does that have to do with anything here?

2) Yes, you are right about Bradman but for some reason haven't grasped the difference. What Murali did vs minnows was comparable with how others did vs minnows. What Bradman did (if you were to consider every team bar England as minnows; as you did) was still not comparable to others as he averaged 30+ more runs than his nearest competitor against them. What does that have to do with anything here?

See a doctor.

Neutral matches only count when shane warne does well against pak.

How did I know someone like you would bring that up? Because you never understand what is being argued. In tests, very few players play neutral tests. For comparison's sake; you can't build a whole new category based on a few tests Warne played.

In ODIs, everybody plays neutrals. it's a category on it's own.

Were you also spoonfed as a child?

 

[vcs]

Tomorrow, a moderator is going to have to move all this crap to the *Official Tendulkar vs. Ponting thread*. Spare a thought for the poor guys.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Then stop bleating abt his away record in odis after u cunningly removed neutral matches.the test record matters b/c punty doesnt make up for that record elsewhere to push his overall value above tendus away average.murali smashed b/z like no one ever has.stop misrepresenting facts.btw shane warne was a failure in his first wc final and punty needed 4 attempts 4 a good score.

 

[Checkmate]

No, I am counting away; as in, the home of the opposition. And I was referring to the stats where we included the Test sides FTR before someone looks it up and it doesn't match. (Although overall, it seems he still has a similar record away.

Yep, I included Bangladesh and Zimbabwe as well. I think runs in neutral venues are just as pertinent though, so I'll include em.

They have different homes. What would be more relevant/accurate was showing how good Tendulkar is in relation to other batsmen in his home and how good Ponting is to other batsmen in his.

Makes sense. Hayden averages 39 at home, Ganguly 45.

So in the end, the difference in averages are insignificant. The extra 4000 runs and 5 for strike rate is a big deal though.

Edit: So bad at this quoting business...

 

[Ikki]

Then stop bleating abt his away record in odis after u cunningly removed neutral matches.the test record matters b/c punty doesnt make up for that record elsewhere to push his overall value above tendus away average.murali smashed b/z like no one ever has.stop misrepresenting facts.btw shane warne was a failure in his first wc final and punty needed 4 attempts 4 a good score.

1) I didn't remove neutral matches. The neutral matches and away matches are kept separately on statsguru. Understand? I hope so.

2) I bleated about the away matches because someone was trying to argue that 1 run and a handful of balls makes one player "noticably" superior to another. It doesn't. That's why I brought up the away record; I'd rather have a player average 1 run less if that means he is consistent home and away.

3) Ponting's away average is butchered by India; otherwise his record is as good as Tendulkar's. This was shown to you before.

4) No, Murali's figures didn't smash b/z "like no one ever has"; and this was shown to you before.

5) Take your medicine, chill out; stop building strawmen and posting non-facts. It's not cute anymore.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

(if you were to consider every team bar England as minnows; as you did)

show me where i said every team apart from eng were minnows

Were you also spoonfed as a child?

Were u neither spoonfed or breastfed as a kid?would explain a lot.

 

[Ikki]

Yep, I included Bangladesh and Zimbabwe as well. I think runs in neutral venues are just as pertinent though, so I'll include em.

They're actually different. One is in an arena where your opponent has a definite advantage. The other is usually in an arena both of you are less equipped to deal with. It doesn't really matter though as that is your prerogative. I was talking about "away" figures; so let it not be confused.

Makes sense. Hayden averages 39 at home, Ganguly 45.

So in the end, the difference in averages are insignificant. The extra 4000 runs and 5 for strike rate is a big deal though.

Edit: So bad at this quoting business...

Not really. One's played more matches to score more aggregate runs. Also, the difference in 5 strike rate is: like Ponting scoring 43 runs in 53 balls whereas Tendulkar scores 44 runs in 51 balls. It's not a big deal at all. I'd say winning 3 WCs is more of a deal though

 

[Avada Kedavra]

1.Dnt include neutral stats 4 warne in tests.
2.typical stat twisting.
3.murali away record is butchered by ind and aus.otherwise he beats warne.
4.lie

 

[Ikki]

show me where i said every team apart from eng were minnows

Genius; that was the whole point Migara was making. That everybody bar England were minnows. I assumed you backing up that claim means you supported it. Otherwise, it makes no sense for you to bring it up.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

They're actually different. One is in an arena where your opponent has a definite advantage. The other is usually in an arena both of you are less equipped to deal with. It doesn't really matter though as that is your prerogative. I was talking about "away" figures; so let it not be confused.



Not really. One's played more matches to score more aggregate runs. Also, the difference in 5 strike rate is: like Ponting scoring 43 runs in 53 balls whereas Tendulkar scores 44 runs in 51 balls. It's not a big deal at all.

sr is impt when warnes is better than murali.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Genius; that was the whole point Migara was making. That everybody bar England were minnows. I assumed you backing up that claim means you supported it. Otherwise, it makes no sense for you to bring it up.

then say u assumed...dnt post it as fact.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

They're actually different. One is in an arena where your opponent has a definite advantage. The other is usually in an arena both of you are less equipped to deal with.

so dont count warnes stats in neutral tests.

 

[Ikki]

1.Dnt include neutral stats 4 warne in tests.
2.typical stat twisting.
3.murali away record is butchered by ind and aus.otherwise he beats warne.
4.lie

1) Why? Because he was awesome there? Also, if anything, Sharjah and SL (where the neutral tests were played) were much more suited to Pak than Aus.

2) I've stopped guessing what you are talking about.

3) No; it's still worse. Remember we standardised the stats and removed Aus...no of course you don't remember

sr is impt when warnes is better than murali.

5 points on bowling SR are completely different to 5 points on batting SR. There's another spoonful.

then say u assumed...dnt post it as fact.

I have to assume it. You are using his point re Bradman which assumes it. It means you either agree with it or don't. If you don't agree with it...you wouldn't bring it up as it doesn't help your argument. If you do agree with it; then you have to accept the prerequisite that all bar England were minnows because that was what Migara's point was about minnows.

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. I'd quit while I was just a little behind (you're a lot behind but I'll be kind).

 

[Avada Kedavra]

1.more excuses
3.dnt shift goal posts..remove them completely like ur doing 4 punty.on std avg tendu beats punty as pews showed.

 

[Fusion]

You're making stuff up again. I'll explain again, in the hope that it catches a hinge and finally sticks.

1) You were arguing Ponting's record in Tests is much inferior to Tendulkar's. I showed you that the only poor record Ponting has is in India; which drags his record down below 50; even though he averages above that everywhere bar Eng/Ind. What does that have to do with anything here?

2) Yes, you are right about Bradman but for some reason haven't grasped the difference. What Murali did vs minnows was comparable with how others did vs minnows. What Bradman did (if you were to consider every team bar England as minnows; as you did) was still not comparable to others as he averaged 30+ more runs than his nearest competitor against them. What does that have to do with anything here?

See a doctor.



How did I know someone like you would bring that up? Because you never understand what is being argued. In tests, very few players play neutral tests. For comparison's sake; you can't build a whole new category based on a few tests Warne played.

In ODIs, everybody plays neutrals. it's a category on it's own.

Were you also spoonfed as a child?

show me where i said every team apart from eng were minnows


Were u neither spoonfed or breastfed as a kid?would explain a lot.

Sigh. Does every thread have to go down this path? Cut out the insults please and for once let’s see if can avoid a closure of thread where Ponting/Tendulkar are being discussed.

 

[Checkmate]

They're actually different. One is in an arena where your opponent has a definite advantage. The other is usually in an arena both of you are less equipped to deal with. It doesn't really matter though as that is your prerogative. I was talking about "away" figures; so let it not be confused.

IMO the main point is that the pitches aren't best suited to the batsman in question.

Not really. One's played more matches to score more aggregate runs. Also, the difference in 5 strike rate is: like Ponting scoring 43 runs in 53 balls whereas Tendulkar scores 44 runs in 51 balls. It's not a big deal at all. I'd say winning 3 WCs is more of a deal though

To each his own, but the difference between 80 and 85 over an entire career is enough for me to distinguish the quality of the batsman.