***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[ankitj]

That's what I call taking the bull by the horns

 

[Ikki]

Another LOL post.

I wonder what the excuse will be if in 2011 you still don't win the WC. You have one of the best ODI sides (as you did in 2007 and 2003) so I wonder what the reason will be then.

Maybe the Indians don't care about the WC and would rather win glorified exhibition matches.

 

[vcs]

We'll survive, just as we have for a quarter of a century since last winning it.

 

[ankitj]

I wonder what the excuse will be if in 2011 you still don't win the WC. You have one of the best ODI sides (as you did in 2007 and 2003) so I wonder what the reason will be then.

Maybe the Indians don't care about the WC and would rather win glorified exhibition matches.

Why would we make excuse? The deserving team will win. What are you trying to say? I have totally lost you there.

EDIT: Indians care about WC, and for winning only one world cup, we consider our team much inferior compared to Aus that has won four. But we do not take that to mean that every individual Indian cricketer is inferior to every Aussie cricketer. That's logical, isn't it?

 

[Ikki]

Really? You have a collection of the best batsmen with more than an adequate bowling attack and yet both in 03 and 07 it was everybody else's fault in the team or the opposition were too good. I mean it's not like the best team always has to win the tournament.

We'll see I guess.

 

[vcs]

Meh, we flopped at the WC in '07, managed to get rid of Greg Chappell and rose to No. 1 in the Test rankings. Best thing that happened to Indian cricket in a long time if you ask me.

 

[ankitj]

Really? You have a collection of the best batsmen with more than an adequate bowling attack and yet both in 03 and 07 it was everybody else's fault in the team or the opposition were too good. I mean it's not like the best team always has to win the tournament.

We'll see I guess.

Everybody else's excepting? I am really not getting it.

 

[Cricketismylife]

Anyone who puts so much weight on Tendulkar failing in one world cup final, is discrediting the man too much.

Tendulkar's odi statistics are phenomenal as are his world cup statistics. While the final is of course important, we shouldn't forget that runs during the group stage, super 6, semis etc are important in order to get to the final.

As far as I'm concerned Tendulkar failing in a one off match, when chasing a huge total against a decent attack, hardly lowers his status as he has done so much outside that one match, dominating pretty much every attack in all conditions.

Lara and Ponting while being great one day players themselves are noticeably worse than Tendulkar. It should be noted that Tendulkar's strike rate and average are comfortably higher than both Lara's and Ponting's, and in the case of Ponting, Tendulkar played a higher percentage of his innings in the lower scoring era of the 90s than Ponting, and that also must work in his favour.

For me, I think Viv and Tendulkar is incredibly close and Viv's record for his period I believe outshines even the Little Master. However, this is not by much and for sheer longevity, I would have to give the title of the greatest ever odi batsmen to Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar.

 

[smash84]

Anyone who puts so much weight on Tendulkar failing in one world cup final, is discrediting the man too much.

Tendulkar's odi statistics are phenomenal as are his world cup statistics. While the final is of course important, we shouldn't forget that runs during the group stage, super 6, semis etc are important in order to get to the final.

As far as I'm concerned Tendulkar failing in a one off match, when chasing a huge total against a decent attack, hardly lowers his status as he has done so much outside that one match, dominating pretty much every attack in all conditions.

Lara and Ponting while being great one day players themselves are noticeably worse than Tendulkar. It should be noted that Tendulkar's strike rate and average are comfortably higher than both Lara's and Ponting's, and in the case of Ponting, Tendulkar played a higher percentage of his innings in the lower scoring era of the 90s than Ponting, and that also must work in his favour.

For me, I think Viv and Tendulkar is incredibly close and Viv's record for his period I believe outshines even the Little Master. However, this is not by much and for sheer longevity, I would have to give the title of the greatest ever odi batsmen to Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar.

good post

 

[Ikki]

Actually, when you look at the ODI international teams that qualify for Tests (Aus, Eng, NZ, Ind, Pak, SL, SA, WI, BAN, Zim) the distance between Ponting and Tendulkar is hardly anything. Even less when you consider only the top 8. Lara, however, is a bit more behind.

 

[vcs]

Nice of you to take out Kenya to bring Tendulkar's stats down, even though they've done as well if not better than Zimbabwe/Bangladesh in the World Cups, that matter so much to you.

 

[Ikki]

TBF, I wouldn't count Zimbabwe or Bangladesh either - which is why I mentioned top 8 sides. Zimbabwe for a period in the 90s probably should be considered though. But, Ponting has played them plenty of times so I don't have a big problem including them; even though Tendulkar has played them more. It just shows you how close they really are minus the minnows.

Actually, what's more interesting is that Tendulkar's away record is really not that impressive. I didn't know that. Ponting also averages higher than Tendulkar in every competition both their teams play (World Cup, Tri series and ICC champs trophy).

 

[Cricketismylife]

Ikki "Zimbabwe for a period in the 90s probably should be considered though"

So Zim in the 90s should be considered...but in test cricket you didn't want to consider Murali's wickets against them (which included Flower brothers 15 times). Isn't that very inconsistent!?

As I have said many times on this forum, when looking at minnow teams one must account for them, but not delete them. Whatever said and done a player deserves some credit for scoring runs against a team like Kenya, Bangla etc even if it's nowhere near as much credit as against better teams. But to completely remove would be unfair.

Even with removal Sachin's strike rate and average are superior to Ponting's, but completely removing is unfair, so Sachin is defintely superior to Ponting, especially when you take into account he started earlier than Ponting in low scoring era.

 

[Ikki]

Actually, I have no problem including Zimbabwe in the period where they were good enough (98-99). Migara brought this up and we included this. However, it actually hinders his figures. Personally, I just removed them for ease; if I wanted to help my argument I could have just used them.

The problem with including the minnows in this instance is that where Tendulkar has played several matches against them; Ponting has usually had 1 inning. It's just easier removing them since the opposition is just so clearly inferior anyway. As I said, Tendulkar is superior but only slight (a bit more than 1 run avg and 5 balls SR). So the statement about Ponting being noticeably worse is exaggerated by quite a bit. Personally, I'd be more concerned with the fact that Tendulkar's away record isn't that good.

 

[smash84]

As I said, Tendulkar is superior but only slight (a bit more than 1 run avg and 5 balls SR).

A rare concession .....enjoy it guys while it lasts ...

 

[Ikki]

A rare concession .....enjoy it guys while it lasts ...

Yeah yeah.

Aside from the discussion with Ponting; it shows why Viv is probably that much better than Tendulkar. Viv hardly played any minnows. If you count out SL (not sure about, Migara can chime in) and Zimbabwe, his figures barely budge.

 

[Chehtha]

Yeah yeah.

Aside from the discussion with Ponting; it shows why Viv is probably that much better than Tendulkar. Viv hardly played any minnows. If you count out SL (not sure about, Migara can chime in) and Zimbabwe, his figures barely budge.

Well one could argue that under the WI dominance almost all other teams looked like minnows...

 

[blahblahblah]

Wasn't similar thread done some months ago.
Nothing has changed from now and then.

It's two man content, really.

yes and between people who have watched the two bat at their respective young ages

 

[Shri]

Actually, I have no problem including Zimbabwe in the period where they were good enough (98-99). Migara brought this up and we included this. However, it actually hinders his figures. Personally, I just removed them for ease; if I wanted to help my argument I could have just used them.

The problem with including the minnows in this instance is that where Tendulkar has played several matches against them; Ponting has usually had 1 inning. It's just easier removing them since the opposition is just so clearly inferior anyway. As I said, Tendulkar is superior but only slight (a bit more than 1 run avg and 5 balls SR). So the statement about Ponting being noticeably worse is exaggerated by quite a bit. Personally, I'd be more concerned with the fact that Tendulkar's away record isn't that good.

We aren't talking about tests here. Any side can cause an upset to any side in this format. Ireland, Bangladesh beating Pak, Ind to get to Rd 2 in the 2007 WC, Kenya getting to the 2003 semi final, Sri Lanka winning the 96 WC out of the blue without being favourites, the minnows of 1983 winning against an infinitely stronger WI in the final etc. I wouldn't remove minnows in ODI cricket at all. Such a stupid thing to do.

 

[Checkmate]

Actually, what's more interesting is that Tendulkar's away record is really not that impressive.

Are you counting the neutral venues too?

At home

Sachin - 6277 at 46.2
Ponting - 5231 at 40.2

Away from home (away + neutral)

Sachin - 10328 at 42.5
Ponting - 7343 at 44.5

The difference in home record is 6 in favor of Tendulkar while the difference in away (from home) record is just 2 in favor of Ponting.