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Cribbage's Standardised Test Averages (UPDATED November 2018 - posts 753-755)

smash84

The Tiger King
Ikki there would be few cricketers whose life would be as glamorous as Imran's (Miller actually might be one of them, although Imran never fought a war) and probably no other cricketer had as many off the field "trysts" as Imran but he was quite disciplined and treated cricket quite professionally. I think being professional should count as a plus point.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Have the standardized Test averages for batsman been made yet?
Nah not yet. Whenever I update this thread with an updated formula or something and post a new list (or indeed when the batting ones first come out) I'll edit the first post with a link to the post it so it doesn't get lost.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Neither Kapil nor Akram get close to Miller even as it is. With Miller you're talking about a batsman who probably could've/should've averaged above 40. Just how much better were Kapil or Akram going to be? The former averages 31 and the latter 22.
First of all Kapil was miles (Yes Miles) ahead of Akram) as a batsman. I am not going to make excuses for Kapil's batting average, he fully deserves what his stats are.

But If we are going to make silly assumptions that Miller should have averaged above 40, so should have Kapil and he should have averaged 25 with the ball.
 

bagapath

International Captain
It's difficult to compare as he didn't really play enough but had Stanley Jackson had a full career I suspect his stats would have been equally impressive
Possible. Also, Stan Jackson was probably the only test cricketer who suffered (and survived) an assassination attempt. This happened when he was the governor of bengal in british india.

Ikki! Kapil was a better batsman than imran. This is not just about the talent he possessed. This is about actually playing match turning knocks. Imran's batting developed enough to take his average above miller's but he was mostly, in my opinion, a great bowler and a decent bat. Can think of 10 + bowling performances of his that should be in the top 100. But none of his knocks can match kapil's 89 against Eng, his centuries in the tied test, against a roaring donald, in west indies against the quartet or his 4 sixers in lords to avoid follow on in lords. Overall imran was a better allrounder. But kapil will lead him by a whisker in batting alone.
 
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ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
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smash84

The Tiger King
Here is a fact to consider: only 2 cricketers featured in both Wisden 100 batting and bowling performances. One is obviously Ian Botham. Other is Kapil Dev. So I agree with Bagpath that Kapil could play some big impact knocks and a case can be made for Kapil as a more gifted batsman than other bowling all-rounders except for Botham.
Kapil was probably a much more gifted batsman than Imran by most accounts. He probably didn't apply himself as much Imran. In fact all the other great all rounders (maybe not Hadlee) seemed to be more naturally gifted with the bat than Imran. Imran worked very hard as a batsman and he wasn't usually very aggressive in test matches (except for the earlier part of his career). He would usually anchor the innings and play a sub-dued role (and so would usually run out of partners or declare, hence the huge number of not outs). Having seen a bit of Imran in his test career and also hearing others talk about his batting I think that is a reasonably accurate picture.
 

Uppercut

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Here is a fact to consider: only 2 cricketers featured in both Wisden 100 batting and bowling performances. One is obviously Ian Botham. Other is Kapil Dev. So I agree with Bagpath that Kapil could play some big impact knocks and a case can be made for Kapil as a more gifted batsman than other bowling all-rounders except for Botham.

EDIT: References:
rediff.com: cricket channel: Top 100 Batsmen of all time
rediff.com: cricket channel: Top 100 Bowlers of all time
Interesting that no Tendulkar innings made it...
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Interesting that no Tendulkar innings made it...
Don't think it's too much of a surprise tbh. The Chennai knock is the only one I would have put in my list. IMHO, Innings, for an exercise such as this, should be rated purely on it's quality and effect of the match alone and factors such as age of the player, whether it is the player's debut, whether he scored it in painful physical circumstances should not be considered. The Perth knock was only special because Tendulkar was 17 at the time, and was just a very good Innings and The Chennai 100* is a tad overrated, IMHO.
 

vcs

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Circumstances also dictate to a large extent whether a batsman gets the opportunity to play such an innings in his career TBH.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Ikki there would be few cricketers whose life would be as glamorous as Imran's (Miller actually might be one of them, although Imran never fought a war) and probably no other cricketer had as many off the field "trysts" as Imran but he was quite disciplined and treated cricket quite professionally. I think being professional should count as a plus point.
Miller was professional enough to already be arguably the greatest rounded all-rounder. I think that says enough about him. But he clearly was not one to heap on runs when the contest was becoming a foregone conclusion. Actually the opposite; he was highly competitive provided it was a contest.

Also, apparently Miller had a thing with Princess Margaret. Take that Sobers! :p

Possible. Also, Stan Jackson was probably the only test cricketer who suffered (and survived) an assassination attempt. This happened when he was the governor of bengal in british india.

Ikki! Kapil was a better batsman than imran. This is not just about the talent he possessed. This is about actually playing match turning knocks. Imran's batting developed enough to take his average above miller's but he was mostly, in my opinion, a great bowler and a decent bat. Can think of 10 + bowling performances of his that should be in the top 100. But none of his knocks can match kapil's 89 against Eng, his centuries in the tied test, against a roaring donald, in west indies against the quartet or his 4 sixers in lords to avoid follow on in lords. Overall imran was a better allrounder. But kapil will lead him by a whisker in batting alone.
Kapil was more of a slogger and an attacking batsman. He probably was for a time better than Imran. Imran on the other hand was more of a match saver but towards the end he was better than Kapil. Even in terms of runs per innings he is ahead.
 
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bagapath

International Captain
Kapil was more of a slogger and an attacking batsman. He probably was for a time better than Imran. Imran on the other hand was more of a match saver but towards the end he was better than Kapil. Even in terms of runs per innings he is ahead.
wrong on all counts ikki. he was an aggressive batter, but not a slogger. one cant slog the windies pace quartet to test centuries. imran's batting, other than evolving into a decent average, never had the impact as kapil's batting had. not even imran would be able point out five innings from his career that would match kapil's top knocks.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
wrong on all counts ikki. he was an aggressive batter, but not a slogger. one cant slog the windies pace quartet to test centuries. imran's batting, other than evolving into a decent average, never had the impact as kapil's batting had. not even imran would be able point out five innings from his career that would match kapil's top knocks.
Imran probably wouldn't recall too much of his cricket in any case he is too much into other things for a long time now :p.....

Although I do agree. Imran was more of a match saver (in test matches of course). And I think it would be a travesty to call Kapil a mere slogger. The reason he probably did not end up with having as good an average as Imran is the fact that he probably didn't apply himself as much (or didn't get the opportunity to, after all the bowling workload that he had to contend with). Kapil was naturally gifted with the bat and you could see that in the way that he batted. If I remember Imran himself thought that Kapil was more talented with the bat.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
wrong on all counts ikki. he was an aggressive batter, but not a slogger. one cant slog the windies pace quartet to test centuries. imran's batting, other than evolving into a decent average, never had the impact as kapil's batting had. not even imran would be able point out five innings from his career that would match kapil's top knocks.
Well, I didn't mean that in a demeaning way. I meant it how you said: he was aggressive. Yes, he did have 100s against the WIndies but that does not really make him a better batsman than Imran overall. Imran too has great knocks and scored a fine century himself against the WIndies attack. Imran was also far more adept away from home. Even in terms of the rate they scored 50s/100s Imran equals Kapil (a bit more 100s, a bit less 50s). He is 7 points higher average wise - yes, I know a bit exaggerated but he is still ahead even in terms of runs per innings.
 
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