morgieb
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Yeah, but only for one series.
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*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion
- Thread starter Mr Mxyzptlk
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
AWTA...
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
It doesn't matter what they think. Warne was better against India in India even though through his entire career playing against them he was never near peak and usually on the rack of career threatening injuries. Warne didnt bowl to India in SL unfortunately, he bowled to them in Aus.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
bagapath
International Captain
averaging 43 against 45 is not "better" ikki. both were toothless in india. at least murali has his ODI performances and his record in SL to calm his future grandchildren down. Warney's grand children are not going to be nice to his grand pa if they ever see his stats against india. this "he was better in india" argument doesnt work at all.
bagapath
International Captain
both murali and warne bowled to india in sharjah. murali killed them. but they tore warne apart. against india, the leggie stands no chance at all.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Waterboy has played 34 Tests therefore your argument is invalid.
The difference is not much. Both of them failed against India in India. But I can tell you, for certain, that Indian batsmen feared Murali far more than they did Warne. Murali was the only spinner who got into the minds of Indian batsmen (albeit at home, but still, a great acheivement). Can't recall any other spinner doing that (even in their home). Indians relished facing Warne anywhere. The only time Warne looked threatening against India was in the World Cup 96 ODI match.
I don't think it is possible to make a blanket statement like that. Murali performed better than Warne in England, New Zealand, Pakistan and West Indies. Warne did slightly better than Murali in India and South Africa. And in neither of the 2 countries (India and South Africa) was Murali a total failure when compared to Warne. Murali's away stats suck mainly because of his abysmal performance in Australia. But considering the astonishing pressure he was under, it is difficult to blame him. Aussies made life hell for him (and I am not talking about Aussie batsmen on the ground here). I am not supporting Murali or justifying his cause or saying that Aussies were wrong, but anybody who can't see this is plainly not human.
bagapath
International Captain
ha ha. but water boy didnt average 12 point something after 8,9 tests
smash84
The Tiger King
Saqlain maybe????
Oh yeah, thanks for the correction. I completely forgot the 1999 series! Saqlain had phenomenal success in that series against India. Not sure if Indian batsmen feared him or were caught by surprise. But they did thump him all over the place when they played him next in Multan, but it was 5 years later.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
But it's very possible. I'll explain for you even though this post has been explained in one way or another in the previous few pages since you seem to be someone worth the effort.
Even when you remove uncommon teams (Aus for Murali, SL for Warne) Warne is still a way in front. Even in the countries where Murali is better, the difference is only slight - enough so that if you weren't intent on point-scoring you'd call them even - probably in Warne's favor with England. You could also call Pakistan for Warne were you to include the neutral tests. And even against the Windies, Warne never had 1 bad series against them until his injury woes where towards the late 90s he was getting spanked by the likes of NZ even - which reminds me that his NZ record suffered greatly because of that 1 series in that period; although it's still comparable to Murali overall.
Even if they are closer average-wise...Warne is far ahead because of his SR. Warne was simply better - distinctly enough to make such a 'blanket statement'.
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smash84
The Tiger King
In the late 1990s Saqlain was at his peak. By 2004 he had been found out by most teams and he had lost that ability to flight the ball nicely. If you see his last 2 years in cricket he was just bowling them flat and using too much of his doosra which was supposed to be his stock delivery. Pretty much fell away in his last few years.
Having said that he was a treat to watch during his peak years.
bagapath
International Captain
no. murali averages 23 in west indies and warne averages 39 over there.
EDIT: saw you edit now; you are still defending the holes in warne's resume instead of accepting them as they are. if you are going to give injury as an excuse for his failures in india, new zealand and west indies (and for his poor record against india in australia) then you are doing him this him a great disservice.
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Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
That was the only one. I elaborated in my above post with the edit.
Warne's record against the Windies is fine home and away. He played 2 series away; one good and one bad. The one bad one coming in the period where he suffered all his injuries destroys his away figures.
Warne's record against the Windies is fine home and away. He played 2 series away; one good and one bad. The one bad one coming in the period where he suffered all his injuries destroys his away figures.
bagapath
International Captain
same holds true for murali's record against india. it is fine home and away. warne's record against india is terrible everywhere.
smash84
The Tiger King
Ikki injuries are a part and parcel of the game. And if the bowler can't deal with them in time then nothing can be done about that. Imagine what Waqar would have done had he not been injured twice between 1990 and 1995?
But he did get injured. Imagine what Imran's figures would have been had he not lost out 3 years of his peak due to injury. So Warne's injuries are not an excuse for his bad performance.
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bagapath
International Captain
correct. sachin had backache during that epic run chase against pak. that doesnt mean india won the match, though. they did lose the game and we have to live with it. ponting has probably had loosies every time he visited india. harbhajan has played all his cricket with a damaged brain. so what?
injuries? my arse. it is the performance that counts.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
It isn't. Murali's figures aren't bastardized because of one series where he was not the same bowler.
Smalishah84; that's true but with Warne a concession should be made. Warne's shoulder and finger injuries/operations at that time rendered him a very different bowler. It took time for him to recover. As Warne himself said; he had to learn to bowl all over again. The muscle memory he had regarding his action had changed. To paraphrase what he said; when you bowl a good ball you know what it feels like on release - for Warne that feeling had changed as he had to adapt to his new body (shoulder/fingers).
He lacked a lot of control in said period and was getting hit around. He could barely bowl the flipper which was one of his most lethal deliveries because of the forever deformed finger. Post injuries Warne pretty much relied on a standard leg break and variating speed, drift and pitch of the ball. Which for me makes it even more impressive how incredible he was in the 00s.
Because of the above; he simply was not the same bowler in that period. These were not ordinary injuries to merit the standard response. It's telling that he was having problems against teams he never had problems against before or after this period. It didn't affect his NZ record enough but it did his away-WI record since he had only played one other away series against them. His India record is shot to hell because he played all but 2 of his series against them in this period also. Which is why him still being better than Murali there statistically says not much good about Murali in India.
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