***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Ruckus]

What people (or at least me) are arguing is that let's give credit to some great knocks that Sehwag has undoubtedly played. As far as establishing his greatness goes, I am waiting to see some of the upcoming series. Nonetheless you have to give him credit that even on supposedly flat tracks (which aren't exactly so, as McGrath and Donald had destroyed India on those tracks at times) he has scored 150s and 200s at about run-a-ball so many times that noone else has done. Let's recognize that irrespective of our stand on where Sehwag is to be placed among the great batsmen. That's all!

Oh ok, that's a very fair analysis then. Don't really see how you could argue (with any reason) against that.

 

[aussie]

Why didn't Steyn and co. expose Sehwag earlier this year,if they already knew his weakness from 06?Let me guess-this doesn't count because Sehwag scored two tons.

You are the one adopting blatant double standards,and to hide it you are accusing people of being trolls and what not.

Actually Steyn & co did expose his weakness from 06 in India 2008 in the Ahmedabad & KaNpur test, when they got him on bowler-friendly pitches similar to in SA 06/07. After he scored that 319 on tha road.

In 2010, i actually thougth especially when Sehwag scored that 1st test hundred that he played Steyn's inswinger better, since remembering the battle it was obvious Steyn was just trying to target him in that area & Sehwag improved slightly IMO. That improvement againts the inswinger continued improved when Malinga tried in when IND toured SRI as well.

That slightl improvement againts inswingers is the only minute positive thing i see from Sehwag going into the the upcoming series agaitns SA. Where on more bowler friendly pitches, where the ball will seam far more sharly, he will need to get the left across early. Since Steyn & De Wet (if fit & picked) will target him in that area again & will be all over him based on fast evidence they would have.


I have not adpoted any doube standards. You are the one trying to suggest i am by chanelling what you think my position is with by suggesting this crap above:

Let me guess-this doesn't count because Sehwag scored two tons.

When this CLEARLY is not my position on the matter. Last i check that certainly is trolling. Lift your game...

 

[ankitj]

Oh ok, that's a very fair analysis then. Don't really see how you could argue (with any reason) against that.

And to add to that, I don't care whether Sehwag is great or not, but Sehwag certainly is a very valuable player for test cricket in this age. He brings to the game the rawness, pride, aggression and a willingness to dominate in all circumstances. Those characteristics are sorely missing from today's test cricket due to excess professionalism and closer scrutiny of stats which forces many cricketers to play to appear good (Tendulkar certainly loves his stats).

 

[aussie]

That Sehwag has played (sporadic) good knocks in adverse conditions.

As for averages,true, it's pretty mediocre but a series by series breakdown shows that he has had his moments.

SA debut series-averaged 50+(1 ton)

Eng 02 averaged nigh on 40 with 1 ton.

NZ 02-03-explained earlier.

SA 06-he failed.

NZ 09-He was poor but this wasn't because of the pitches at all,which were good ones for batting.

No one is arguing that Sehwag is Don Bradman in difficult conditions,but he isn't an FTB.He is a much improved batsman since that 07-08 tour down under.

He has played sporadic good knocks againts quality spin in adverse condtions. None againts quality pace in adverse conditions.

In a series by serious breakdown in the times he faced quality pace attacks in testing conditons & failed or bowler who could expose his technical flaws. He completely struggled, he hardly had any momenets worth speaking about.

SA 01/02 was a againts a average SA attack on a general flat pitch.

He simply failed in NZ 02/03 just like he failed in SA 06/07 to handle to pace in adverse conditons. No explanation can go around that.

Sehwag certainly remains a FTB until he scores runs againts a quality pace attack in testing conditions. I have seen no concrete evidence that since his return to IND team in 07/08 vs AUS that he has improved (expect a possible slight improvement on the way he plays inswingers in 2010 compared to the past). But i want to see him counter that old flaw in bowler friendly conditions where the ball will seam & swing more sharply, before i can be sure.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

When this CLEARLY is not my position on the matter. Last i check that certainly is trolling. Lift your game...

It's pretty obvious what your position is.As for "lift your game",say that to yourself.Being decent and polite whilst debating,and learning the difference between "where" and "were" would be a good start.

 

[Ruckus]

And to add to that, I don't care whether Sehwag is great or not, but Sehwag certainly is a very valuable player for test cricket in this age. He brings to the game the rawness, pride, aggression and a willingness to dominate in all circumstances. Those characteristics are sorely missing from today's test cricket due to excess professionalism and closer scrutiny of stats which forces many cricketers to play to appear good (Tendulkar certainly loves his stats).

I think its interesting to see why the Sehwags and Haydens of the world are not classified as all-time greats with the likes of Tendulkar and Ponting. The comparisons between Ponting and Hayden, and, Tendulkar and Sehwag, are very similiar indeed. Both Tendulkar and Ponting not only average more at home than Hayden and Sehwag, but in addition they also have good averages in one or more of SA, NZ and Eng. For Ponting he has succeeded well in both SA and NZ, whilst for Tendulkar, Eng and NZ. Both Hayden and Sehwag haven't performed well overall in any of these countries, and that it the precise thing seperating them from the best - adaptability. Judging by his previous results in SA, it is most likely Sehwag (even if he has improved somewhat) will not perform well there. If he does, then perhaps he has every right to be put on the same pedestal as the greats of the modern era.

 

[aussie]

I think its interesting to see why the Sehwags and Haydens of the world are not classified as all-time greats with the likes of Tendulkar and Ponting. The comparisons between Ponting and Hayden, and, Tendulkar and Sehwag, are very similiar indeed. Both Tendulkar and Ponting not only average more at home than Hayden and Sehwag, but in addition they also have good averages in one or more of SA, NZ and Eng. For Ponting he has succeeded well in both SA and NZ, whilst for Tendulkar, Eng and NZ. Both Hayden and Sehwag haven't performed well overall in any of these countries, and that it the precise thing seperating them from the best - adaptability. Judging by his previous results in SA, it is most likely Sehwag (even if he has improved somewhat) will not perform well there. If he does, then perhaps he has every right to be put on the same pedestal as the greats of the modern era.

Without a doubt.

 

[sachin200]

I didn't know how to face Cronje, says Tendulkar

 

[ankitj]

I didn't know how to face Cronje, says Tendulkar

If you ask me, he says that just because he is not secure enough to say that he struggled against Donald and McGrath. Even Akhtar and Asif have made him appear mortal on occasions. But naming them will be like admitting that he has his weaknesses.

 

[centurymaker]

If you ask me, he says that just because he is not secure enough to say that he struggled against Donald and McGrath. Even Akhtar and Asif have made him appear mortal on occasions. But naming them will be like admitting that he has his weaknesses.

Maybe you need to read the whole article. He did name other bowlers.

"The bowler who tested me the most was Cronje. Honestly, I got out to him more than anyone. When we played South Africa, he always got me out more than Allan Donald or Shaun Pollock.


"It was not that I could not pick him. It was just that the ball seemed to go straight to a fielder. I was going great guns in Durban one year and played some big shots against Donald and Pollock. Hansie came on and I flicked his first ball straight to leg-slip. I never knew what to do with him,"


"I did okay against him(McGrath). But, among the spinners, Warne at his best was still something special,"

By saying "okay", i think he's implying that he didn't do that well.

And btw what weaknesses does he have?????
oh i remember, struggling to drive the ball during his injury period etc = he has weaknesses.

 

[Maximus0723]

I think its interesting to see why the Sehwags and Haydens of the world are not classified as all-time greats with the likes of Tendulkar and Ponting. The comparisons between Ponting and Hayden, and, Tendulkar and Sehwag, are very similiar indeed. Both Tendulkar and Ponting not only average more at home than Hayden and Sehwag, but in addition they also have good averages in one or more of SA, NZ and Eng. For Ponting he has succeeded well in both SA and NZ, whilst for Tendulkar, Eng and NZ. Both Hayden and Sehwag haven't performed well overall in any of these countries, and that it the precise thing seperating them from the best - adaptability. Judging by his previous results in SA, it is most likely Sehwag (even if he has improved somewhat) will not perform well there. If he does, then perhaps he has every right to be put on the same pedestal as the greats of the modern era.

Aren't Aussie pitches for pacers?

I think it's unfair to just ignore pitches of Asian countries. They assist spinners more than other pitches. Also they are very good for reverse swinging. So when you count records for batsman of non-subcontinent countries when they play in non-subcontinent vs. pacers than you have to count records of subcontinent batsman playing against spinners.

Moreover, if the pacers are able to do well on these pitches than you still have to count the record of batsman vs. them in subcontinent. Pacers who do well in subcontinent I.e. good/great Pakis, Ind bowlers, good/great WI bowlers, Donald, Steyn, McGrath, Gillespie, etc.

 

[centurymaker]

Aren't Aussie pitches for pacers?

I think it's unfair to just ignore pitches of Asian countries. They assist spinners more than other pitches. Also they are very good for reverse swinging. So when you count records for batsman of non-subcontinent countries when they play in non-subcontinent vs. pacers than you have to count records of subcontinent batsman playing against spinners.

Moreover, if the pacers are able to do well on these pitches than you still have to count the record of batsman vs. them in subcontinent. Pacers who do well in subcontinent I.e. good/great Pakis, Ind bowlers, good/great WI bowlers, Donald, Steyn, McGrath, Gillespie, etc.

I totaly agree. It's spot on.
The real test of an non-subcontinental player is in india, for example.

 

[Ruckus]

Aren't Aussie pitches for pacers?

I think it's unfair to just ignore pitches of Asian countries. They assist spinners more than other pitches. Also they are very good for reverse swinging. So when you count records for batsman of non-subcontinent countries when they play in non-subcontinent vs. pacers than you have to count records of subcontinent batsman playing against spinners.

The main point I'm making is that of adaptability. I wasn't ignoring Asian pitches, they just weren't relevant to the comparison. For example, Ponting has played very well in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. This shows that he can easily adapt to subcontinent conditions and does not have a major deficit against spin (unlike many claim). The same is true for Tendulkar, who has played very well in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. So that being said, both Ponting and Tendulkar have atleast shown they can play well consistently in all possible conditions. The same can't be said for Hayden and Sehwag (yet).

 

[Burgey]

I totaly agree. It's spot on.
The real test of an non-subcontinental player is in india, for example.

Why?

 

[robelinda]

Why?

Yeah why? Many batsmen from countries where they dont experience swinging conditions will get found out in places like England or NZ, the real test for guys like Hayden was England, not the SC. Virtually all the WI batsmen bar Chanders have no idea how to play in Eng, but have done ok in the SC, or at least a little better.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah why? Many batsmen from countries where they dont experience swinging conditions will get found out in places like England or NZ, the real test for guys like Hayden was England, not the SC. Virtually all the WI batsmen bar Chanders have no idea how to play in Eng, but have done ok in the SC, or at least a little better.

When was the last time WI batsman toured the SC?

 

[robelinda]

When was the last time WI batsman toured the SC?

I recall a tour of Pakistan maybe 2007, or 2006? They did quite well with the bat v India in India in 2003. I guess the very current lot haven't been tested. Not sure when they've toured SL last.

 

[Athlai]

I recall a tour of Pakistan maybe 2007, or 2006? They did quite well with the bat v India in India in 2003. I guess the very current lot haven't been tested. Not sure when they've toured SL last.

Last tour of SL was 05 apparently.

 

[Maximus0723]

The main point I'm making is that of adaptability. I wasn't ignoring Asian pitches, they just weren't relevant to the comparison. For example, Ponting has played very well in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. This shows that he can easily adapt to subcontinent conditions and does not have a major deficit against spin (unlike many claim). The same is true for Tendulkar, who has played very well in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. So that being said, both Ponting and Tendulkar have atleast shown they can play well consistently in all possible conditions. The same can't be said for Hayden and Sehwag (yet).

I understand. My point was more general.

I agree, saying Ponting sucks against spin is BS. Against spin, Ponting is above average IMO.

 

[ankitj]

And btw what weaknesses does he have?????
oh i remember, struggling to drive the ball during his injury period etc = he has weaknesses.

I am not saying he has any bigger weakness than any other batsman of his time. I just don't agree that Cronje is the kind of bowler who could have troubled Tendulkar for any length of time. Tendulkar would have on some day easily taken him apart if he played him enough.

Every great batsman gets out to great fast bowlers. Even Viv was bounced out by Lillee on at least one occasion. You should just be secure enough to name a great bowler as the toughest to face rather than naming Cronje, Pedro Collins or Razzaq. McGrath and Donald are easily easily the bowlers who had most success against Sachin. You could call the contests even perhaps but at least they were notable contests.