***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[robelinda]

Ponting has never played a better innings than this one on the subcontinent BTW... but yeah, all innings played against minnows count for **** all.

I'd take his two great innings vs SL in 99 against Murali.

 

[b1acksun]

Ikki unless Ponting's career does a 360, no one worth anything is going to consider him better than Tendulkar. But, you are welcome to keep trying.

 

[Ikki]

Maybe he would've got 148, 102, 43, 54 and 22 (avg. 73.80) in those 5 innings had Cronje not got him at those stages, and thereby enhance his average against SA overall?

It may have been higher, but you can say that about any wicket taken by anybody. But what would you say of Donald who took his wicket just as many times and kept Tendulkar to an average in the 10s; or Pollock who took his wicket 4 times and at an average under 10. They're the ones who have been Tendulkar's bane. Not Cronje, really.

 

[vcs]

I'd take his two great innings vs SL in 99 against Murali.

That's fair enough. I exaggerated a bit to make my point that disregarding performances against minnows point-blank takes us into dangerous ground. I still think it's a very commendable effort, regardless of the weak (on paper) opposition.

 

[angad]

And for one last time, 2 Ws didn't get Tendulkar out in those 3 tests that he played against Pak in 90s.

You are right -

 

[shankar]

Personally, don't buy the tennis elbow argument a great deal. In 04 when he was supposed to have been injured he averaged in the 90s or 70 excluding B/Z.

The injury was after the Ind in Pak '04 series (after the Asia cup ODI series actually) and before Australia in India '04. He picked up a bat only 3 days before the third test in the '04 series. The big scores in 2004 were made prior to this.

In 05 he averaged 44.40. The only year he suffers is 06. Even in 03 he was man of the tournament in the WC. Even throughout this period in the ODIs he was averaging more than healthily usually in the 40s, once in the 50s although he had a bad year in 05. His injury was always a matter of playing too long at the crease where his tennis elbow would flare up and restrict his movement. Yet throughout this time he played plenty of long innings.

I think it certainly did hinder him initially but he was clearly out of form. It's not like a Warne where had multiple surgeries in the time he's doing so poorly.

His problem was that he was not able to confidently play shots through the off-side especially forcing shots off the back-foot. So he began getting inside the line and working the ball to the leg-side a lot. This would work on flat wickets with little movement. So he was able to keep making the odd big score but in addition to several small scores.

In ODIs during this period (from the ODI series after the Aus '04 series to the S.Africa one in 2006) he averages 35.06.

 

[weldone]

It may have been higher, but you can say that about any wicket taken by anybody. But what would you say of Donald who took his wicket just as many times and kept Tendulkar to an average in the 10s; or Pollock who took his wicket 4 times and at an average under 10. They're the ones who have been Tendulkar's bane. Not Cronje, really.

Saying that Tendulkar averaged 10 against Donald or Pollock will be insane. You are only including those innings when they managed to take Sachin's wicket, and not considering those where they failed to do so: to reach at that number. That's ridiculous!

Yes, Donald at his best troubled Tendulkar a few times (and McGrath, too). But hey, those bowlers at their best troubled everyone. And every player in the history of the game were troubled by some bowlers or the other. Even Bradman (I hate to pronounce his name in this thread) was troubled by Verity, and Larwood at times. That can't be a point against any batsman (specially when they've scored some centuries against those bowlers and got some MoS etc.)

However, if that point is extended to prove that Sachin was a mediocre player of quality pace, then that would be saying too much. (Just like because Ponting has struggled against Harbhajan for the most part doesn't mean he has been mediocre against spin bowling.) There are too many quality pace bowlers against whom Sachin did very well. The names that come from the top of my head are Curtly Ambrose, Dale Steyn, Courtney Walsh, Shoaib Akhtar.

 

[siddi]

Tendulkar all the way

After this series, nobody can compare the two...both the batsman are legends of the game, but Tendulkar was the only one in Bradman's 11

 

[shankar]

It may have been higher, but you can say that about any wicket taken by anybody. But what would you say of Donald who took his wicket just as many times and kept Tendulkar to an average in the 10s; or Pollock who took his wicket 4 times and at an average under 10. They're the ones who have been Tendulkar's bane. Not Cronje, really.

It's not either-or. Both Donald and Cronje had parts to play in limiting Tendulkar's innings in the 3 Ind-SA series in the 90's. That was my point.

 

[robelinda]

After this series, nobody can compare the two...both the batsman are legends of the game, but Tendulkar was the only one in Bradman's 11

Well thats harsh, DB died in 2001. Somehow I think he wouldve been mighty impressed with Ponting's attacking strokeplay at number 3 AND as captain, much like DB himself.

 

[Ikki]

LOL, I am not saying he would average 10 or lower against them. You've missed the point. I am saying the reason Tendulkar has a low average was more to do with those 2 than Cronje. They took his wicket before he could even set himself.

TBF Donald didn't really trouble Ponting a heap and McGrath when playing Ponting in domestic cricket came off badly. In my time of watching cricket Ponting's the batsman I'd pick to face a great pace attack. Then probably Waugh, then probably Tendulkar.

 

[shankar]

TBF Donald didn't really trouble Ponting a heap

LOL! Is that in the three whole innings that he bowled against him?

 

[Ikki]

Ponting played 5 tests against Donald. But yes, 2 in the 90s. Never really had much of a problem with him though. Nor Pollock. Averaged 63 in matches with them. Tendulkar OTOH averaged 36.

 

[robelinda]

Ponting played 5 tests against Donald. But yes, 2 in the 90s. Never really had much of a problem with him though. Nor Pollock. Averaged 63 in matches with them. Tendulkar OTOH averaged 36.

And he scored one of his best tons at the MCG vs Donald. But Sachin's cape town town was glorious too.

 

[shankar]

Ponting played 5 tests against Donald. But yes, 2 in the 90s. Never really had much of a problem with him though.

He played in 7 innings against Donald. In the last 4 innings put together he faced 5 balls. So he only faced him in 3 significant innings. Bit harsh on Donald to judge him on that basis.

 

[Ikki]

Not judging Donald really, just saying Ponting wasn't greatly troubled by him as Tendulkar was. Personally, Donald was my favourite bowler of the 90s along with Wasim. Still think he gets a raw deal when people start talking about great bowlers. For some reason though we played the S.Africans really well during his career. Especially Waugh (S).

 

[robelinda]

Not judging Donald really, just saying Ponting wasn't greatly troubled by him as Tendulkar was. Personally, Donald was my favourite bowler of the 90s along with Wasim. Still think he gets a raw deal when people start talking about great bowlers. For some reason though we played the S.Africans really well during his career. Especially Waugh (S).

Indeed. From the very first innings Waugh played against Donald (164) he looked great. I'll never forget that knock, he was in supreme touch. Havent seen SRW play much better than the 170 at Joburg in 97 too.

 

[shankar]

Not judging Donald really, just saying Ponting wasn't greatly troubled by him as Tendulkar was.

Yeah and my point was that that means nothing since they only faced off in 3 innings. It was barely a contest.

Personally, Donald was my favourite bowler of the 90s along with Wasim. Still think he gets a raw deal when people start talking about great bowlers. For some reason though we played the S.Africans really well during his career. Especially Waugh (S).

He was my favourite as well. Loved that bowling action. I think his last 2 series against Aus. when he was utterly pedestrian really hurt him.

 

[siddi]

Well thats harsh, DB died in 2001. Somehow I think he wouldve been mighty impressed with Ponting's attacking strokeplay at number 3 AND as captain, much like DB himself.

Ponting is a great player in his own right....but he was just a couple of hundreds behind Tendulkar a few yrs back, and now he has fallen so far behind that it does not look like a competition anymore.
But do not get me wrong, Ponting on his day is better than anyone, including Sachin. But over the past few years, sachin has so much consistency, especially so late in his career.

 

[robelinda]

Yeah and my point was that that means nothing since they only faced off in 3 innings. It was barely a contest.

Ok, I'm guessing you didnt even watch that MCG match? Donald bowled the best he ever did in Australia in that match, and in the next test which was SRW's 100th. at tea on day 1 Aus had only just crawled to 100/4, Donald and Pollock were almost unplayable. After tea Punter decided to attack and it was absolutely magnificent. Donald gave him everything, then he took the new ball and Ponting went even harder at him, It was glorious stuff. A supreme hundred. Ponting showed all how it was done.