Sobers rates Subash Gupte over Shane Warne

[aussie]

Yeah, Warne is a bit like Sehwag, despite the hole in his record (India) he deserves to be remembered for what he did rather than what he didn't. People keep saying that he made merry against mediocre English and S. African batsmen but there are very, very few bowlers who can expose their weaknesses as ruthlessly and repeatedly as he did.

The criticism of Sehwag (scores big runs mostly on subcontinental tracks without much lateral movement) is not completely unjustified but it somewhat misses the point, because he will go down as a genius even if he averages <35 in places like England and SA. Simply because no one can do what he can even when conditions are in favour of the batsman. He doesn't need to score gritty hundreds when the ball is hooping around corners.

If Sehwag never scored runs overseas when the ball is moving around againts quality pace attacks. But consistently scores run on dead tracks IND/SC in general & aids in IND winning alot of home test - he was certainly go down as a great (he already is). But just an Indian great, since the rate he scores @ home will aid IND winning alot of home which would make him a local great.

The problem will come when rating him next to other great openers who not only dominated @ home - but overseas as well. He will never be rated next to them, given he would not have been versatile enough.

 

[chris.hinton]

Warne is not just the best spinner ever... he is the best cricketer to have ever played the game

 

[andyc]

If Sehwag never scored runs overseas when the ball is moving around againts quality pace attacks. But consistently scores run on dead tracks IND/SC in general & aids in IND winning alot of home test - he was certainly go down as a great (he already is). But just an Indian great, since the rate he scores @ home will aid IND winning alot of home which would make him a local great.

The problem will come when rating him next to other great openers who not only dominated @ home - but overseas as well. He will never be rated next to them, given he would not have been versatile enough.

Let's try to keep this on topic, guys.

As for Warne, definitely do agreed with a few in this thread who've said that they feel Warne to be a bit overrated. A great bowler definitely, but from the way some people go on about him, especially your average Australian punter, you'd think he averaged under 20 and took a five-for every game. Reckon he'll be a lot like Viv Richards personally; rated very highly by those who saw him play, whereas later generations will rate him more based on his very good, but hardly incredible average.

 

[BoyBrumby]

If Warne is overrated it's maybe partly a reflection of CW's demographics. There's a lot of Aussies and poms here and the former are naturally going to favour him and he whipped our collective arse for a decade and a half.

Must be noted it's not a specific CW vice tho, he was one of Wisden's 5 players of the century after all. IVA Richards was too FWIW.

 

[Burgey]

Let's try to keep this on topic, guys.

As for Warne, definitely do agreed with a few in this thread who've said that they feel Warne to be a bit overrated. A great bowler definitely, but from the way some people go on about him, especially your average Australian punter, you'd think he averaged under 20 and took a five-for every game. Reckon he'll be a lot like Viv Richards personally; rated very highly by those who saw him play, whereas later generations will rate him more based on his very good, but hardly incredible average.

Charisma plays it's part I think.

Warne, Lillee, Viv, Botham, Miller, Flintoff, Lara, Sehwag. They have a type of swagger about them. Their personalities and on-field personas contributed to the way the were and are perceived. It doesn't always make them greater than their contemporaries but it maybe explains the way they are perceived.

There are others who are great and arguably greater but who go about their business without that swagger, like your Hadlees, McGraths, Muralis and Tendulkars. There's a place for all of them.

One of the things which makes cricket so great.

 

[Burgey]

When assessing an opinion of players you haven't seen it can be useful to look at the same persons opinion of players you have seen to gauge your thoughts on the judgement made.
In the case of Sobers he once said when asked about Allan Border in his prime that "He's a very average batsman who tolerates the bowling without ever trying to dominate it."

His assessment of Gupte might have similar merit.

Oh Sir Gary. I thought better of you.

 

[ankitj]

Warne is not just the best spinner ever... he is the best cricketer to have ever played the game

Don't mind but that only substantiates Sobers' point!

IMO Warne should rank between 10-15 among all time cricketers.

 

[akilana]

If Warne's record against Eng and SL/Pak were switched, I don't think he'd be rated this highly, IMO.

 

[vcs]

There is no doubt that Warne's record against England is a huge part of his legend. Rightly so, because of the importance and tradition of the Ashes.

 

[Ikki]

If Warne's record against Eng and SL/Pak were switched, I don't think he'd be rated this highly, IMO.

He'd be rated higher is what you're saying? His SL/Pak record is better than his England one.

 

[ankitj]

@Ikki - I like those quotes in your signature. Are you adding Sobers quote too anytime soon?

 

[Ikki]

Nah man, no raving lunatics in mine

 

[honestbharani]

Nah man, no raving lunatics in mine

juz rose tinted fanboys..

 

[Prince EWS]

@Ikki - I like those quotes in your signature. Are you adding Sobers quote too anytime soon?

Haha, he so should.

 

[Athlai]

Would show a nice contrast.

 

[Smudge]

I've read some pretty interesting comments about Gupte over the last few days, where it doesn't paint him in a good light at all. Will post them when I'm not so pissed.