Dale Steyn and Graeme Swann

[weldone]

Dhoni IMO is a class act against spin. His technique was only tested once or twice by Murali but that was at his stunning best. Still this Indian line up is the best against spin, and is better than many lineups in the history of game, but IMO isn't as good what they had in mid to late 90s with Sidhu, Azhar, Tendulkar, Kapil, Manjrekar and Kambli.

Agree with the bolded part (add Ganguly and Dravid to that list - Sehwag is awesome too, but he didn't play much in the late 90s)....by 'best in the history of the game', I meant the Indian lineup in general in the last 20 years...

Dhoni is a class act against lesser spinners, he's not at all a class act against quality spinners. I've never seen him play cofortably against Murali and Warne (even when he faced Warne in IPL, he looked an absolute ****). The players you are naming (plus Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Raina, Gambhir) are all good/v good/awesome against top quality spin bowling.

 

[Teja.]

Agree with the bolded part (add Ganguly and Dravid to that list - Sehwag is awesome too, but he didn't play much in the late 90s).

Dhoni is a class act against lesser spinners, he's not at all a class act against quality spinners. I've never seen him play cofortably against Murali and Warne (even when he faced Warne in IPL, he looked an absolute ****). The players you are naming (plus Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Raina, Gambhir) are all good/v good/awesome against top quality spin bowling.

While I agree with that, as long as Dhoni can cope well with Swann atm, he's a quality batsman against Spin in the present context.

 

[weldone]

Miandad, Iqbal, Imran, Saleem were very good players of spin for Pakistan

Zaheer Abbas, Miandad, Mohammad Yousuf, Inzamam, Saleem Malik and Saeed Anwar were probably their best players of spin in the last 30 years (and in that order, probably - though I won't place much importance on the order, they were all excellent).

 

[weldone]

While I agree with that, as long as Dhoni can cope well with Swann atm, he's a quality batsman against Spin in the present context.

True. A rung below the rest of the Indian batting lineup against spin, but quality still.

 

[aussie]

Dale steyn is the best fast bowler currently but is still overrated he plays on helpful tracks more times than other fast bowlers,he has done well in subcontinent in india but again there was help in those matches and he looked as worse as others in rest of the matches.

Swann is yet to tested if he bowls well to srilankan and india batsman then we can rate him,he is a very good spinner no doubt but still its early.

Ha. Where you you when Steyn took that 10 wicket match haul on that flat nagpur pitch earlier this year. Or his bowling in Pakistan 2007 & SRI 06 on flat pitches, when he took 5 wicket hauls??

 

[TT Boy]

Cricket_God = Nehrafan

 

[Xuhaib]

Zaheer Abbas, Miandad, Mohammad Yousuf, Inzamam, Saleem Malik and Saeed Anwar were probably their best players of spin in the last 30 years (and in that order, probably - though I won't place much importance on the order, they were all excellent).

Younis Khan and Salim Malik > Mo Yo and Inzi vs spin

 

[Xuhaib]

I was one of first few on cricketweb who predicted greatness for him.

Remember have a convo with Goughy and Richard where both were in disagreement, Goughy thought Steyn was short and skiddy to be consistently top class while Richard was presenting some of his crazy theory based on weird statistical data.

Aamer in all probability well on his way to join these two will never forgive that bastard first time somebody make me feel like a jilted woman.

 

[social]

If Swann averages less than 40 in the Ashes, I'll be surprised

He literally bowled well in 3 innings in the last series (averaged mid 30s despite being flattered by these outings) and Australians typcally lap his style of bowling up

Reckon he'll be going at about 70 by the 3rd test (Murali, much better bowler, averaged 100 last time) before getting it down a bit

He's an off spinner FFS and the last time one of those did well in Oz was about 1823

 

[G.I.Joe]

I was one of first few on cricketweb who predicted greatness for him.

Remember have a convo with Goughy and Richard where both were in disagreement, Goughy thought Steyn was short and skiddy to be consistently top class while Richard was presenting some of his crazy theory based on weird statistical data.

Aamer in all probability well on his way to join these two will never forgive that bastard first time somebody make me feel like a jilted woman.

Hey hey hey, you also rated Ishant highly, so lets not get too ****y off of a 50% prediction strike rate.

 

[GIMH]

If Swann averages less than 40 in the Ashes, I'll be surprised

He literally bowled well in 3 innings in the last series (averaged mid 30s despite being flattered by these outings) and Australians typcally lap his style of bowling up

Reckon he'll be going at about 70 by the 3rd test (Murali, much better bowler, averaged 100 last time) before getting it down a bit

He's an off spinner FFS and the last time one of those did well in Oz was about 1823

Have you actually watched him bowl since the ashes???

 

[Xuhaib]

despite bowling awesome this summer I think Swann will struggle to run through quality batting line ups unless its a spinning day 5 track, yes he spins it big and gets great drift but I think he just lack enough variety to trouble the very good players of spin thought Umer Akmal handled him well so he can be playedhowever Aus has 4 lefties in their top 8 which might just work to Sawnny's benefit.

 

[BoyBrumby]

despite bowling awesome this summer I think Swann will struggle to run through quality batting line ups unless its a spinning day 5 track, yes he spins it big and gets great drift but I think he just lack enough variety to trouble the very good players of spin thought Umer Akmal handled him well so he can be playedhowever Aus has 4 lefties in their top 8 which might just work to Sawnny's benefit.

TBF Yousuf's hardly a duff player of spin and Swann managed to castle him with one that turned big in the last ODI.

 

[Woodster]

My worry for Swann is that he's been in such good form for nearly two years, that he's due a bad pitch, and typically it's going to come in Australia. He's been fantastic, who has got better and better. In a recent article, who it was by I can't recollect, may have been Duncan Fletcher, they wondered whether he'd get the drift with the Kookaburra ball, could be crucial. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

 

[zaremba]

My worry for Swann is that he's been in such good form for nearly two years, that he's due a bad pitch, and typically it's going to come in Australia. He's been fantastic, who has got better and better.

This.

In a recent article, who it was by I can't recollect, may have been Duncan Fletcher, they wondered whether he'd get the drift with the Kookaburra ball, could be crucial. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

Does the Kookaburra really drift more than the Duke? I suppose if there's a less prominent seam it's possible, but for now I take this one with a p. of s.

 

[Woodster]

Does the Kookaburra really drift more than the Duke? I suppose if there's a less prominent seam it's possible, but for now I take this one with a p. of s.

I suppose it's debateable, but stands to reason in that the pace bowlers get little out of it when it goes past about three balls, then why should the spinners get much drift with it, reagardless of the revs put on the ball.

 

[tooextracool]

I suppose it's debateable, but stands to reason in that the pace bowlers get little out of it when it goes past about three balls, then why should the spinners get much drift with it, reagardless of the revs put on the ball.

My understanding of drift is that it is related to the wind. Hence the slower the delivery, the more likely it is for the wind to take effect. Warne used drift to great effect in Australia so it is not incomprehensible for Swann to do the same.

 

[aussie]

If Swann averages less than 40 in the Ashes, I'll be surprised

He literally bowled well in 3 innings in the last series (averaged mid 30s despite being flattered by these outings) and Australians typcally lap his style of bowling up

Reckon he'll be going at about 70 by the 3rd test (Murali, much better bowler, averaged 100 last time) before getting it down a bit

He's an off spinner FFS and the last time one of those did well in Oz was about 1823

Ha as already mentioned. Have you even watched Swann bowl since the 2009 Ashes??. Its very obvious that he improved a great deal in all formats since then.

Plus Lance Gibbs (1961 & 68/69), Laker (58/59), Saqlain (99/00) for overseas spinners did well in AUS after 1823.

While local AUS off-spinners like Mallett, Yardley, Ian Johnson, Funky Miller have pretty decent records in AUS as well, after 1823 also.

 

[Hurricane]

This.

Does the Kookaburra really drift more than the Duke? I suppose if there's a less prominent seam it's possible, but for now I take this one with a p. of s.

I suppose it's debateable, but stands to reason in that the pace bowlers get little out of it when it goes past about three balls, then why should the spinners get much drift with it, reagardless of the revs put on the ball.

My understanding of drift is that it is related to the wind. Hence the slower the delivery, the more likely it is for the wind to take effect. Warne used drift to great effect in Australia so it is not incomprehensible for Swann to do the same.

I am not an expert on drift. But it is not related to the wind imho. If you spin any ball. A table tennis ball, a tennis ball, or a baseball it will curve in the air.
The more revs you put on it - the more drift. Or so I thought. I was reading this quote from
Murali from a Cricinfo interview and he makes it sound like it is an art form. So there must be more to it.

How many times did you change your run-up?
I don't take a run-up. I just bowl. Just see the mark and bowl. Sometimes shorter, sometimes longer, it happens. I never take a run-up. That's always been that way. However, I used to run in at a greater angle. Gradually, we changed that with help from Bruce Yardley and Dav Whatmore. Running in straighter gave me greater variation and reduced the rotation on my body. I was able to use the crease and was able to learn the art of drifting the ball.

 

[akilana]

One of the best of Steyn.