Sobers rates Subash Gupte over Shane Warne

[Top_Cat]

yeah??????

Yeah he did. It's bollocks that he didn't have a good wrong-un. Just wasn't as good as the other stuff he sent down.

Warne's game-sense was a big reason why he succeeded in Australia and managed to bowl well there when others got smashed. Warne knew his wrong'un wasn't as good as his leggie/top-spinner/flipper, is on the record as saying so. And bearing in mind unfriendly decks at home (in terms of spin) and his attitude that the first thing a spinner needs to do is to stay on, it makes absolute sense that he would be more worried about keeping a consistent line/length and using the bounce instead of trying to rip a ball between bat-and-pad.

 

[aussie]

Yeah he did. It's bollocks that he didn't have a good wrong-un. Just wasn't as good as the other stuff he sent down.

Warne's game-sense was a big reason why he succeeded in Australia and managed to bowl well there when others got smashed. Warne knew his wrong'un wasn't as good as his leggie/top-spinner/flipper, is on the record as saying so. And bearing in mind unfriendly decks at home (in terms of spin) and his attitude that the first thing a spinner needs to do is to stay on, it makes absolute sense that he would be more worried about keeping a consistent line/length and using the bounce instead of trying to rip a ball between bat-and-pad.

200% on point.

 

[honestbharani]

why can't the thread be used to praise gupte instead of denigrating sobers?

awta

 

[honestbharani]

Retired great douchebag makes derogatory statement about another retired great douchebag. Barely news, ain't it?

Sobers does seem to be from the school of thought that says a leg-spinner can't be a great unless they have an awesome wrong'un, though.

I don't really understand why Sobers saying Gupte was better than Warne is derogatory to Warne.. He did say Warne is a great bowler...

 

[honestbharani]

When it is perfectly alright to call Bedi/Harvey idiots, It should apply to all cricketers IMO irrespective of the subjective 'respect' that they have earned.

I don't think I called them idiots, but would care to be proven wrong though..

 

[Top_Cat]

I don't really understand why Sobers saying Gupte was better than Warne is derogatory to Warne.. He did say Warne is a great bowler...

Well, I'm sure Warne won't lose much sleep over it but there's something like a 6 point difference in their overall averages and Warne obviously took far more wickets. It seems as if Sobers is having a go.

 

[weldone]

I don't really understand why Sobers saying Gupte was better than Warne is derogatory to Warne.. He did say Warne is a great bowler...

Anyone who doesn't place Warne among his 10 best cricketers of all-time list, is being derogatory to Warne. You don't know that, yet? There is no way you can respect Warne as a cricketer if you don't consider him to be the best legspinner of all-time. Calling Warne the 2nd or 3rd best legspinner of all-time equates to calling him a ******* .

At least those who worship him feel so, and they are many in number. So, you and me should shut the **** up and get outta here.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Well, I'm sure Warne won't lose much sleep over it but there's something like a 6 point difference in their overall averages and Warne obviously took far more wickets. It seems as if Sobers is having a go.

After reading SJS's post, I can see why Sobers doesn't place any importance on the 6 point difference in average or his wicket tally.

 

[howardj]

He may be superior in a technical sense, or had more variety etc - I don't know.

But, in terms of impact on matches, impact on the very pshyche of an opposition, over a very sustained period (which I think is the hallmark of greatness) boy it's hard to see how Warne could be bested as a leg spinner.

 

[Spark]

If you want to be pedantic though Sobers did say Gupte was a better legspinner, which could allude to a more technical rather than stuff like matchwinning impact on the game, kind of thing.

Definitely know which one is more important to me, though.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, I'm sure Warne won't lose much sleep over it but there's something like a 6 point difference in their overall averages and Warne obviously took far more wickets. It seems as if Sobers is having a go.

Well, he rates Gavaskar better than all batsmen of today.. So maybe he genuinely believes it was more difficult to succeed in that era than this one.. May not be right but hardly bollocks, considering he has played in that era and watched this era, which none of us have..


It is one thing to think he is wrong, quite another to say it is bollocks and be all dismissive about it. As I said, most of the time, his opinions seem pretty thought out and based on actual cricketing reasons.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah he did. It's bollocks that he didn't have a good wrong-un. Just wasn't as good as the other stuff he sent down.

Warne's game-sense was a big reason why he succeeded in Australia and managed to bowl well there when others got smashed. Warne knew his wrong'un wasn't as good as his leggie/top-spinner/flipper, is on the record as saying so. And bearing in mind unfriendly decks at home (in terms of spin) and his attitude that the first thing a spinner needs to do is to stay on, it makes absolute sense that he would be more worried about keeping a consistent line/length and using the bounce instead of trying to rip a ball between bat-and-pad.

The problem with that point is that if he had a googly that was worth calling even as "good", let alone what you are claiming, he would and should have used it in India. There was a tour game in 2001 in India and a bloke called Balaji Rao was getting his googly to go a whole LOT better than Warney.. And he only tried 1 or 2 from memory. And trust me, it was NOTHING to speak of. The trajectory gave it away easily and there was no problem for the batters to pick it... And apart from that one googly to Ganguly, I just haven't seen him bowl a decent/good one...

I am not saying only leggies who can bowl a good googly > one who doesn't but given how good Sobers was as a batsman, perhaps he feels he could play a guy without a decent googly easily compared to one who does. Again, just too much defensive mentality around from a number of posters here.. Personally, I don't believe Gupte > Warne but think someone like Sobers thinking so makes me rate Gupte much higher (not higher than Warne but you get the point.) And this is what ratings like these do to the fans... And while I can understand most of you don't agree, it just seems silly that a bunch of guys who never played the game at any level and never even watched one out of the two we are comparing can dismiss the opinion of one who can lay claim to both the aforementioned points... A little humility and perspective never hurts..

 

[honestbharani]

He may be superior in a technical sense, or had more variety etc - I don't know.

But, in terms of impact on matches, impact on the very pshyche of an opposition, over a very sustained period (which I think is the hallmark of greatness) boy it's hard to see how Warne could be bested as a leg spinner.

You put it in a much better way.. To put it even better, if Gupte was indeed better than Warne, we have surely missed something special in cricket history. Coz if there is one point you can say without much room for argument, it is this: You must have been a God awesome leg spinner to be termed better than Warne..

 

[Ikki]

Underrating Warne because he didn't use the Googly much/wasn't that good at it is like underrating McGrath for similar underuse of swing.

 

[Sanz]

And apart from that one googly to Ganguly, I just haven't seen him bowl a decent/good one...

If that is the best Googly or the only googly that can be presented to support that Warnie had a good googly then I guess Sobers stands corrected.

 

[Sanz]

Results: Was Shane Warne overrated?


Thanks for voting!

Was Shane Warne overrated?

• Yes 25.22% (115 votes)
• No 74.78% (341 votes)

Total votes: 456


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/cs/Sate...oundation/News_Poll/saveResult&site=HeraldSun


I guess Sobers is not alone.

 

[Jono]

Warne bowled a googly to get Ntini out in the 2nd test vs. South Africa in 2006 to win them the test match (and series).

 

[Teja.]

While I disagree with Sobers, I don't think averages are the best way to make that point. The difference between the difference in Average between Murali and Warne and Warne and Gupte is only 1.4. Can't see too many people telling comparing Warne to Murali is a dig to Murali.

 

[weldone]

The trajectory gave it away easily and there was no problem for the batters to pick it... And apart from that one googly to Ganguly, I just haven't seen him bowl a decent/good one...

That's the whole point.

But then again, imagine if Warne had an excellent googly (that turned half the amount his leggies did, and if he had the habit of landing most of his leggies as well as googlies on or just outside the off-stump), England and NewZealand might have lost test status by now, possibly.

 

[bagapath]

robin uthappa is a better batsman than viv richards because richards never played the reverse sweep; uthappa doesnt reverse sweep either. but i dont care.