Sobers rates Subash Gupte over Shane Warne

[Ikki]

Umm, 6 wpm @ 22.7 stands up and trumps any fast bowler who has bowled in the last 80 years or so pretty objectively as far as pure statistics is concerned tbh. People might consider Warne to be comparable to pacers because they feel he was much more than his statistics suggest but Murali is completely another matter.

Murali bowled without much support, a lot more overs per match than Warne and against the minnows far moe often. Put into the proper perspective, they're very close statistically. It's as fallacious to compare Warne's and Murali's stats prima facie as it is to compare a spinner's and a fast bowler's.

 

[gwo]

No, I'm hanging out with many cricket fans. Some of them suggest Warne, Lillee and Richards are Gods. Some of them suggest Tendulkar is better than Bradman. Some of them suggest Larwood and Trumper were better than anyone today. Some of them suggest Grace is twice as good as Bradman. None of them is indecisive. They stick to what they say (like you), just that some have the courtesy not to ask the point of making my list when their favorite cricketers are not there.

I'll never tear your list apart (unless you have someone like Vettori or Ntini at the top, and omit Bradman). I may argue, but I won't suggest the list being pointless, and neither would Sobers.

I guess we're talking about sanity here.

Larwood n Trumper best of all time?

Grace 2x better than Bradman? wtfx

Tendy better than Bradman? You're pulling my leg now, gtfo.

I guess if you want to rank your opinion alongside those who hold opinions suggested above, then I guess that says it all for me.

What is this "Warne might make my top 35-40" bull****? Really? Warne comfortably in the top 40 and easily in the top 25. Wait, wasn't there some poll BEFORE the turn of the century which put him in the top 5? Wake up to yourself you drongo.

 

[Ikki]

True, spinners would generally have higher average than fast bowlers, and better longevity. Where did I compare Warne's average with the fast bowlers? If I did, he wouldn't come within anywhere near where I'm suggesting, and that would be unfair.

How else are you comparing fast bowlers and spinners? Amongst spinners, Warne has one or two rivals and everyone is a rung, if not two, below. Amongst fast bowlers, the top 10 are pretty much interchangeable. Clearly the two crafts have different likelihoods of success.

 

[weldone]

I think it's pretty clear you don't rate Warne because he didn't do well against India even though I'm not sure why that's the measuring pole, despite his otherwise superb record. You can just come out and blatantly say it

That's the problem with you guys, not rating someone as highly as others do does not equate to not rating them at all. I rate Warne quite highly. I think he's among the best 4 spinners of all-time, I think he's the best legspinner this world has produced in the last 60 years. I have never seen anyone use the flipper as well as Warne did (but I guess Grimmett did it). I have seen very few players playing with the passion that Warne possessed on big occasions. I almost became his die-hard fan after watching the '99 WC. And I enjoyed his back-of-the-hand short-pitched flipper (that he used sparingly) more than any delivery ever bowled by Murali.

And had his performances against India been the measuring pole then I wouldn't have kept him in my top 100 (top 200, maybe?) cricketers of all-time. I rate him by his overall record, for sure.

 

[weldone]

It's a forum. Not a kids playground with milk and honey. If I disagree with a list you've publicly made I'm going to come right out and **** on it, especially If i think it's bad

That was in reply to a more sensible member of the forum. I would never have written such a post directed at you. So, no need to reply. Chill.

 

[GotSpin]

That was in reply to a more sensible member of the forum. I would never have written such a post directed at you. So, chill.

I'm not really sure how to take this

I'm just saying you're supposed to argue about lists.

Don't mind me, i hate cricket right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Teja.]

Murali bowled without much support, a lot more overs per match than Warne and against the minnows far moe often. Put into the proper perspective, they're very close statistically. It's as fallacious to compare Warne's and Murali's stats prima facie as it is to compare a spinner's and a fast bowler's.

I'm not disagreeing with any of these points(though I'm also not agreeing with the same intensity), Just pointing out that while extra caution would be required while comparing Warne statistically with an ATG Pacer to make said record stand up or it would be a 'disservice' to Warne, The same is not true about Murali, His record already outshines post-1910 bowlers.

 

[andyc]

Let's try and keep all of this civil, guys.

 

[weldone]

How else are you comparing fast bowlers and spinners? Amongst spinners, Warne has one or two rivals and everyone is a rung, if not two, below. Amongst fast bowlers, the top 10 are pretty much interchangeable. Clearly the two crafts have different likelihoods of success.

Are you suggesting that fast bowlers and spinners should not be compared with one another? Then I agree. Neither should batsmen and bowlers. But when someone is telling me post my list of top 25 cricketers, then I can't my list of top 25 spinners, can I?

 

[Spark]

To be fair weldone posted that list only in response to a general query of mine. I was less interested in the specifics of the list and logic behind each choice than in the fact that he could name such a list.

 

[andyc]

I guess we're talking about sanity here.

Larwood n Trumper best of all time?

Grace 2x better than Bradman? wtfx

Tendy better than Bradman? You're pulling my leg now, gtfo.

I guess if you want to rank your opinion alongside those who hold opinions suggested above, then I guess that says it all for me.

What is this "Warne might make my top 35-40" bull****? Really? Warne comfortably in the top 40 and easily in the top 25. Wait, wasn't there some poll BEFORE the turn of the century which put him in the top 5? Wake up to yourself you drongo.

gwo, personal insults like these are not appropriate at all. You can disagree with what the poster's said all you like, but there's no need to be abusive about it or insult the actual poster.

 

[weldone]

Murali bowled without much support, a lot more overs per match than Warne and against the minnows far moe often. Put into the proper perspective, they're very close statistically. It's as fallacious to compare Warne's and Murali's stats prima facie...

Agreed...

 

[weldone]

gwo, personal insults like these are not appropriate at all. You can disagree with what the poster's said all you like, but there's no need to be abusive about it or insult the actual poster.

wtf andyc? gtfo, wake up to yourself you drongo.


























































At least now I know that you can't ban me for this reason

 

[Jono]

Who the **** actually says the word 'drongo'

Dear me.

 

[Ikki]

I'm not disagreeing with any of these points(though I'm also not agreeing with the same intensity), Just pointing out that while extra caution would be required while comparing Warne statistically with an ATG Pacer to make said record stand up or it would be a 'disservice' to Warne, The same is not true about Murali, His record already outshines post-1910 bowlers.

Sorry, in that case you're totally right. I don't think it's accurate but it's more of an issue for Warne than Murali.

 

[GotSpin]

Who the **** actually says the word 'drongo'

Dear me.

Good word. You don't want to break out the swear words but it still shows you got attitude

 

[vcs]

 

[andyc]

Sorry, in that case you're totally right. I don't think it's accurate but it's more of an issue for Warne than Murali.

Let's try to keep this on topic, Ikki. There's proper threads if you really want to get into Warne vs Murali, but this isn't one of them.

 

[weldone]

I think Sobers is entitled to his opinion.

But I (and many here) think Warne > Gupte, and Steve's Aussies = Lloyd's WI

And that doesn't make Sobers' statements pointless.

[/thread]

 

[Ikki]

WRT to the two all-time teams, I don't think it's really a talking point if you rate either one over the other. Saying one wouldn't even win one test is going over the top though.