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Sobers rates Subash Gupte over Shane Warne

vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Sanz said:
Rarely used is different from not having a good one. That said :-

YouTube - Ambrose's Slower ball to healy

And I dont think I have a problem with your opinion but at the same time I don't see why Sobers should be called names for having a different opinion, after all he has said many positive things about Warne.
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Think it's pretty similar to Warne's wrong'un in a way, it's not a great slower ball but it will get the odd wicket when you take as many wickets as those guys did. I mean, big Curtly just slowed his arm up!

But yeah, I think we've come to a fair agreement. :)
 
akilana

akilana

International 12th Man
Sanz said:
I don't see why Sobers should be called names for having a different opinion, after all he has said many positive things about Warne.
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don't worry. Sobers has the class to not call anyone with different opinions as idiots.
 
Sanz

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
TumTum said:
I don't think you understand my point. It is silly to judge a bowler on a specif skill. I am just saying that Warnie is know for his Flippers, nothing to do with a Wrong-un, which wrecked many batting line-ups.
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I think you really need to read what Sobers has said. He didn't say that Warnie was crap. He said

"Someone who is called great from today's game is Shane Warne, but I have got my reservations about Shane, I think he is a great bowler, but I'm not sure how well he compares with spinners overall.I think people get carried away with this man's ability as he hardly ever bowled a good googly.To me, Shane Warne is a great turner of the ball. I like his aggressive attitude, I love the way he attacks batsmen and I give him 100 per cent for that as not enough spinners bowl with that approach, but in my estimation Subhash Gupte was a better leg-spinner."

 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
I dunno about this. Right to opinion and all that but if say, Harbhajan had that epic 2001 series, then was average for a while and then disappeared due to a controversy in 2003-2004(with an average of 30 or so)after which, based on that series, Ricky Ponting says Harbhajan is a better bowler than Murali because Harbhajan was a better bowler against Ricky. It would have been a foolish statement. I don't see too much difference between my hypothetical scenario and the one at hand.

Gupte might have well been a better bowler than Warne in that one series when he faced WI, but an analysis for best Leggie ever must be one which takes into account their entire career and not how big a certain bowler's googlies were in the matches Sobers faced him.
 
TumTum

TumTum

Banned
Sanz said:
He didn't say that Warnie was crap.
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And where did I say that Sobers said that?

It is clear what Sobers is trying to say, he didn't have a great Googly so he doesn't rate him that high. But the same can be said for Flippers, not many bowlers at all had a great Flipper like Warnie.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
TumTum said:
And where did I say that Sobers said that?

It is clear what Sobers is trying to say, he didn't have a great Googly so he doesn't rate him that high. But the same can be said for Flippers, not many bowlers at all had a great Flipper like Warnie.
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Think it's an extra step to say that he doesn't rate him as high as Gupte because he didn't have a good googly. It's quite possible that it's a part of the reason, but you are extrapolating his words to say that this is the only reason.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
Teja. said:
And wtf, Gupte got 'banned' for asking a girl out for a drink? That is tragic tstl.
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he didn't; it was his roommate. but gupte didnt want to rat on him and both of them got dropped! anyways, subhash met a beautiful, well-off woman and got married to her for life. his story had a happy ending, that way.
 
Burgey

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Sanz said:
I think you really need to read what Sobers has said. He didn't say that Warnie was crap. He said

"Someone who is called great from today's game is Shane Warne, but I have got my reservations about Shane, I think he is a great bowler, but I'm not sure how well he compares with spinners overall.I think people get carried away with this man's ability as he hardly ever bowled a good googly.To me, Shane Warne is a great turner of the ball. I like his aggressive attitude, I love the way he attacks batsmen and I give him 100 per cent for that as not enough spinners bowl with that approach, but in my estimation Subhash Gupte was a better leg-spinner."
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When did Sobers write that piece, I wonder? Because it seemed to me as a casual observor that about three-quarters of Warne's last 200 or so Test wickets were taken by balls that didn't turn.
 
vcs

vcs

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Athlai said:
Read it more as him saying how another all-time great team (Australia in the 2000s) never faced an attack like the West Indies and despite their dominance they struggled against good fast bowling at times. A fast bowling attack that pales in comparison to the West Indian one.

If one of the most dominant teams in the history of the game can show a crack like that against Harmy and co. Then what would have happened if they went up against the best fast bowling outfit ever assembled? Same goes for Bradman's team.
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That is a silly argument and it doesn't make sense just because Sobers said it.

As for Warne vs. Gupte, I have no real opinion (like most others in this thread) having never watched Gupte.
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Sanz said:
Okay, so what did Neville Cardus and John Arlott had to say about Warne and Gupte ?
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Nothing.

I was suggesitng that great cricket journalist like them are highly unlikely to ever rate Gupte over Warne for reasons Sobers stated. Past players generally aren't the best historians of the game, since Sobers is way of the mark by suggesting Warne never bowled a "good googly". He certainly did, but not as much during his first 93-97 peak since his flipper was more effective.
 
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