*Official* Pakistan in England 2010

[aussie]

Aussie brought up a point on PC about Kieswetter, and him not looking 'clueless' against 'the likes of Nannes, Tait, Steyn, Morkel, Bond, Malinga.' This comment led me to look up some stats, and have to say, they definitely back up the theory that Kieswetter is awful against pace bowling.

Against Sri Lanka - T20 WC Semi Final

vs Malinga - 0 off 3 balls - dismissed by the 3rd ball
vs Mathews - 10 off 6 balls
vs Randiv - 10 off 5 balls
vs Jayasuriya - 8 off 3 balls
vs Mendis - 9 off 10 balls

Against Australia T20 WC Final

vs Tait - 9 off 9 balls
vs Johnson - 4 off 7 balls - dismissed by the 7th ball
vs Nannes - 22 off 16 balls
vs Watson - 24 off 10 balls
vs Smith - 4 off 7 balls

vs South Africa - T20 WC

vs Morkel - 3 off 4
vs Steyn - 6 off 4
vs Langeveldt - 15 off 10
vs Kallis - 5 off 12
vs Botha - 6 off 9
vs Duminy - 6 off 3

Against Pakistan - T20 WC

vs Asif - 10 off 5
vs Aamer - 6 off 10
vs Razzaq - 0 off 5
vs Hafeez - 7 off 4

Against New Zealand

vs Bond - 1 off 4
vs Mills - 2 off 3 - dismissed by 3rd ball
vs McCullum - 12 off 5

Against Pakistan - Sunday

vs Razzaq - 6 off 3
vs Akhtar - 0 off 4 - dismissed by 4th ball

The only genuinely quick bowler he's scored remotely quickly off by T20 standards is Dirk Nannes, the rest, he's looked pretty clueless against. The stats show that he's pretty good against Medium pace, the likes of Watson, Langeveldt, Asif, Razzaq and Mathews have been slapped around; and he's proven in the past that he's decent against spin, so it begs the question as to why he's opening the batting. Surely, if they wanted a guy like Kieswetter in the side it'd make much more sense to have him in the middle order? He can't cope with 90+mph bowling early on, yet carves medium pace and spin around with relative ease, batting in the middle order would be ideal for him. AFAIC he has no future opening the batting in International cricket, but then again he's not good enough to replace Trott, Pietersen, Collingwood or Morgan in the middle order either, so he's pretty stuffed really.

Haha oh my. I dont even know where to start here KP. But this is horribly revisionist.

I find it stunning that you or anyone after Kieswetters T20 WC performance could say Kieswetter looked horrible or clueless againts 90 mph pace during that tournament. I know for a FACT that on planetcricket ATT - you weren't saying that. So if find this revisionist position quite ridiculous.

Secondly lets go through each the game he played again.

Semi-final vs SRI:

How did he look clueless vs Malinga?. Did you even watch the game? (well i know you didn't so maybe you forgeot what happened). Malinga bowled a fantastic inswinging yorker that probably that would have dismissed 9 out of 10 batsmen & you call that looking clueless?. SMH

Semi-final vs PAK:

I didnt mention this game. Since i dont remember if Kieswetter by the time he got out even faced Aamir. All i remember was he was dropped early by Ajmal, smashed Asif around in an over & got out soon after.

vs SA:

Haha. Dear god. It is impossible you could have watched that game in the deliveries he faced Steyn & Morkel especially & tell me he looked clueless againts them. Madness.

vs NZ:

Same thing again. It is total madness to suggest he looked clueless at any of deliveries facing Bond.


Looking clueless againts quality pace is what Davies looked like facing Akhtar in the 1st two T20s. Which to date until the ODI series is completed backs up position i have had on Davies regardless of his county form & SR - that he is not the type of bowler againts international 90 mph that has the game to smash them about. I really want to know your view of his performances given i know your a massive fan of his & have been pushing for his inclusion all year.

As i siad before here & on PC. Kieswetter's problem since the T20 WC as Nasser is that teams have noticed Kiewswetter preffered scoring area is to give him self room outside off-stump & smash it through the off-side. Thus bowler like Akthar on sunday & AUS during the ODI series tucked him up & he has struggled to score.

But i'd be flabbergasted if you tell me in the second T20 on tuesday, that Kieswetter looked clueless facing Akthar on Gul - if he wasn't run out, who knows what more damage he could have done. In that innings he played his technique looked just as tight early on like in T20 WC Final - compared to what was seen in the ODIs vs AUS earlier this summer.

Fact Kieswetter remains without a shadow of a doubt the best options in ENG to open in the batting in both ODIs & T20s againts international new-ball bowlers. Since he & only he ATM has the ability to blaze them in the power-play overs.

Plus no i wouldn't support Kiewswetter batting down the order. It is totally untrue the he is clueless againts internaitonal 90 mph new-ball bowlers. So that would just as unwise as the past decisions to bat G Jones, Prior as openers in ODIs when they never did it in county cricket & expect them to be a success.

 

[Jarquis]

Smh

 

[marc71178]

I find it stunning that you or anyone after Kieswetters T20 WC performance could say Kieswetter looked horrible or clueless againts 90 mph pace during that tournament. I know for a FACT that on planetcricket ATT - you weren't saying that. So if find this revisionist position quite ridiculous.

Yes, what KP has done here is quite admirable actually. He had an opinion at the time, which others disagreed with. Having looked on it with a degree of thought, he's realised his initial opinion was flawed and has now changed it after observing the facts. I'd say the ridiculous thing is continuing to argue something in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

 

[Howsie]

Looking clueless againts quality pace is what Davies looked like facing Akhtar in the 1st two T20s.

Kieswetter's looked worse tbh, he scored a solitary single of Akhtar's bowling in the two 20/20's and his dismissal in the first game was almost laughable, it was the type of shot you'd see a tailender play against Akhtar.

 

[Manee]

Speaking of Akhtar, it was good to see him use that legendary slower ball in the T20s. Would love to see it used more in the ODIs, such a gun delivery.

 

[King Pietersen]

Yes, what KP has done here is quite admirable actually. He had an opinion at the time, which others disagreed with. Having looked on it with a degree of thought, he's realised his initial opinion was flawed and has now changed it after observing the facts. I'd say the ridiculous thing is continuing to argue something in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

Thanks, and I'd say this sums it up pretty nicely.

 

[Uppercut]

It would suck so badly if we all, like aussie, were forever bound by our initial judgments.

 

[Manee]

Thanks, and I'd say this sums it up pretty nicely.

Yeah, it is a good trait to have.

 

[Langeveldt]

Just putting it out there, but was that the worst completed international match in the history of cricket? I know you can't really quantify "fulfilment", but it was definitely the worst I have seen.. Perhaps Aus v USA or something would compete? It had everything, from a poor crowd, to poor weather, to a one sided contest shrouded in controversy anyway..

 

[Jayzamann]

It had everything, from a poor crowd, to poor weather, to a one sided contest shrouded in controversy anyway..

That pretty much summarised the state of affairs the other night. I watch and enjoy a lot of cricket, but all four of those aspects is just too much.

 

[aussie]

Yes, what KP has done here is quite admirable actually. He had an opinion at the time, which others disagreed with. Having looked on it with a degree of thought, he's realised his initial opinion was flawed and has now changed it after observing the facts. I'd say the ridiculous thing is continuing to argue something in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

If he did, their was no evidence at the conclusion of the T20 WC. Nor since thats shows Kieswetter looks clueless when facing 90mph/quality new-ball international bowling.

Kieswetter's looked worse tbh, he scored a solitary single of Akhtar's bowling in the two 20/20's and his dismissal in the first game was almost laughable, it was the type of shot you'd see a tailender play against Akhtar.

I saw nothing laughable about his dismissal in the 1st T20. All that happened was that given PAK like AUS in the ODIs earlier in the summer, saw Kieswetter strenght was smoking it through the off-side. PAK had a man @ deep-point & Kieswetter tride to go leg-side - on another day that ball could have flown over the slips for 4.

But then i'm not sure what some of you are arguing?. Isn't the point been made here that Kieswetter looks clueless when facing 90 mph/quality international new-ball bowling?. How do you people define a batsman looking clueless??. Since i find it quite odd that just because Kieswetter scored a solitary single of Akhtar that is sign of him being clueless. When he was smashing Gul, one of the best T20 bowlers in the world, in that over before he was unfortunately run out - did he look clueless??.

Plus also in that over in the second T20 he faced from Akhtar. He defense looked much tigher are solid compared to what was seen vs AUS earlier in the summer.

Looking clueless againts such bowling is:

- Looking nervous & intimidated at the crease in defense. Instead of looking assured.

- Not looking capable of having any attacking shots to counter the fast-bowler.

Davies showed all of the above while batting especially in the second T20. Kieswetter has none of major issues, outside a minor flaw againts inswingers. Kieswetter is ready to go after them & has the shots capable of taking them apart, if he gets going.

 

[Faisal1985]

The never ending supply....hopefully he will be useful for Pak along with Gul.

 

[Goughy]

tride.

Its nearly 330 am here so I apologise for being drunk and awkward but seriously--tride????

 

[Manee]

Its nearly 330 am here so I apologise for being drunk and awkward but seriously--tride????

 

[aussie]

Ha..i'd say it was an obvious typo, that on another day & another forum would be ignored & the cricket debate would continue. But then again on CW, things are different.

 

[Flem274*]

You're so misunderstood aussie.

 

[Shri]

Yeah, as the great Dingdong once said, "Visionaries are misunderstood in their time".

 

[King Pietersen]

Pakistan win toss and bowl first. Mohammad Irfan is in, really looking forward to seeing him bowl. Looking forward to seeing Davies bat too. Couldn't have worked out better.

Just noticed Bopara's in for Wright too, which is a move I definitely support. Ravi looked excellent finishing the innings against Bangladesh, and he seems to have a handy knack of picking up wickets with the ball. Good selection.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Pakistan's batting looking light as ever, would have struggled to last 30 overs if Pakistan had been put in I think.

 

[stumpski]

41 overs a side btw ... anyone got the radio on - what's with the background music? I assume it's some kind of pre-match entertainment.