English national football, where do we go from here?

[sledger]

Fabregas.

 

[Uppercut]

Haha, TBH him and Tevez were the only two I could think of.

 

[sledger]

Haha, TBH him and Tevez were the only two I could think of.

Yeah they were the only two I could think of who made any real impact, Kuyt probably was amongst the leading Premiership players tbh, but that really isn't saying much in this instance.

 

[Uppercut]

He was comfortably better than both, if we're honest. Still crap though. Jeez, it was a dire world cup for Premiership players.

 

[sledger]

He was comfortably better than both, if we're honest. Still crap though. Jeez, it was a dire world cup for Premiership players.

Dunno, he had the benefit of actually being able to start in every match and had a solid enough midfield around him. Cesc actually looked pretty decent in the limited cameos he was given, and I would wager that if Tevez had played in a team which actually had a midfield he would have progressed further in the tournament and made a more telling impact.

 

[marc71178]

Also missed Ferdinand a lot. People don't seem to like talking about that, probably because it sounds like an excuse, but it's true. His partnership with Terry was fantastic during qualifying.

Not exactly.

Of the 10 games, they played together in just 3 of them (and 2 of those were after we'd qualified)

 

[Scaly piscine]

Dunno, he had the benefit of actually being able to start in every match and had a solid enough midfield around him. Cesc actually looked pretty decent in the limited cameos he was given, and I would wager that if Tevez had played in a team which actually had a midfield he would have progressed further in the tournament and made a more telling impact.

Exactly. Just because you start each game doesn't mean you've played better than someone who only played a few games or came on as a sub.

Dirk Krap played because the guy playing behind him couldn't defend. In terms of actual performance he did sweet FA and was absolutely atrocious in the final. He's one of these players who people seem to think he's done well because he doesn't make many obvious mistakes and he works hard. These days most players work hard. If you want to score you almost always have to gamble, playing safe all the time will get you nowhere.

 

[GIMH]

Since long before Euro 2000 actually.

Nah, you're wrong on this one, we generally struggled back then

 

[sledger]

Nah, you're wrong on this one, we generally struggled back then

Sorry, was trying to make the point that England have been poor in international competitions for the most part since 1970, and that this failure to do well isn't exactly a recent trend.

 

[Uppercut]

They haven't always been 'poor', to be fair, they just haven't lived up to their fans' unreasonable expectations.

 

[GIMH]

Sorry, was trying to make the point that England have been poor in international competitions for the most part since 1970, and that this failure to do well isn't exactly a recent trend.

Yeah but tbf to aussie () he was saying that in recent years we have been pretty good in qualifying only to disappoint. At least in Euro 2000, we had been crap in qualifying so had no expectations going in.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Who was the best?

Clint Dempsey, IMHO. &, slight stretch to say he's a Prem player perhaps but he did feature last season, Landon Donovan was kwality too.

 

[aussie]

What, the same Ashley Young who's never done anything of real note for England?

Explain the logic behind suddenly putting him ahead of Walcott and Johnson.

Capello hardly ever used to call him up Youbg during WCQs between 2008-09/10. Plus the few tiems he did play i dont recall him every starting any game. So he was hardly given a change to prove himself on the international stage.But he was always a top performaer in the league on the wing.

So Capello's reason for leaving out Walcott. was because he didn't feel his form was right due to all the injuries (although i still would have picked him) & maybe wanted seasoned & in-form winger - Young was the best choice instead of SWP who was having real game time @ City.

 

[grecian]

Yeah, I think there's some truth in this too. But even so, most of the team were already playing quite badly for their clubs towards the end of the season.

Also missed Ferdinand a lot. People don't seem to like talking about that, probably because it sounds like an excuse, but it's true. His partnership with Terry was fantastic during qualifying.

Rio and Terry have been shocking for England recently, and I say this as one of Ferdinands chief defenders (something he doesn't seem too adept at when he's fit nowadays). Would like to move on, Jagielka needs to be tried with various partners, and see who's best.

As long as it's not Upson obviously.

 

[aussie]

Surely that can't be an excuse, given Barcelona players played more football than most and won the WC, Sneijder won the treble and reached the final, Kuyt probably runs 15 km a game, gets picked every game and was easily the best Premier League player in the WC. They just played poorly, much much worse than they do in the average qualifying game. I think the occasion got to most of them.

Spain have a winter break though. None of their players who played in La Liga went into the WC injured. Except for Torres & Fabregas who plays in the premiership. Torres looked just a messed up as any ENG player during the WC.

In the last decade ENG is the European team that goes in the major tournaments with the most injuries to key players or have unlucky injuries at crucial times in tournaments.

Fatigue is a factor with ENG players. Of course not the only one:

- media pressure always plays its part. When you see ENG looking so abjectly woeful againts minnows like Algeria & Trinidad - its obvious the WC stage is getting to them. Although i'd argue the 2006 WC AND 2010 WC squads where good enough to go very far. Look at how well the 2002 injury plagued WC squad played, when nobody expected much from them, especially when ENG where in the "Group of Death".

- the way ENG play in big matches also an issue. I.e Euro 2004 vs France & Portugal, EURO 2000 vs Portugal/Romania, EURO 08 QF in Russia. ENG get good starts by scoring early, then bring on unneeded pressure on themselves by defending too deep - they conceed goals & resort to boring long-ball football.

 

[vcs]

They may have the winter break but they play as much if not more football than in the English Premier League..

 

[GIMH]

Same amount of league games, less cup games I tihnk

 

[vcs]

I think they have two-legged cup ties in their FA Cup equivalent. No Carling Cup equivalent as far as I know, but most top clubs play a youth team anyway in that competition.

 

[aussie]

Same amount of league games, less cup games I tihnk

Ye this is what i always thought, would be very surprised if the Spanish & Italian versions to the the FA Cup in the Copa Del Rey & Copa Italian have so much participating teams as our FA Cup. Plus they have no similar competition to the Carling Cup.

 

[GIMH]

I think they have two-legged cup ties in their FA Cup equivalent. No Carling Cup equivalent as far as I know, but most top clubs play a youth team anyway in that competition.

Only the top few. And we have FA Cup replays, and more rounds.