akilana
International 12th Man
any no ball bowled?Zimbabwe once beat Pakistan in Pakistan.
any no ball bowled?Zimbabwe once beat Pakistan in Pakistan.
That's a pretty big extrapolation.Grimmett averaged 32.44 against England.
The only team during Warne's time whose batting against spin bowling was comparable to that of England during Grimmett's time (not saying batting in general, I emphasize on 'batting against spin bowling') was India, and Warne averaged 47.19 against India.
Fixed.That's a lolbad extrapolation.
If Sobers had had the bowling of Keith Miller I'd agree with you but although Sobers may well lay claim to the title of greatest all rounderd cricketer, the sheer amount that Bradman is ahead of anyone else will mean that in my books he will remain no.1How about being one of the finest close fielders add to the weight?
But Murali never had to bowl against India in Australia and Warne didn't get to bowl against India in Sri Lanka. Still, even as it is, you're suggesting that Grimmett is better than Murali because of that one fact. Which, I think, is flawed.You might think that Hammond, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Duleepsinhji, Jardine were not as good players of spin as Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Azharuddin, Sidhu. But I don't.
Murali averaged 32.62 against India, and 36.07 against Australia. Not excellent, but not something that might suggest that he wasn't in the same league as Grimmett (32.44 against England).
Sri Lanka was never a class batting lineup against spin bowling (they were good, still), until very recently.
In the last 30+ years no leggie has bowled out India. Apart from Warne, who in his long career tasted great success against every team except India, there have also been instances of a bob holland routing west indies. qadir bowling out england and west indies. danish kaneria and mushtaq ahmad having great successes against different teams. indian spinner kumble has exploited the weakness of his opponents against wrist spin many a time. even hirwani bundled out west indies once. india is the only team that has never ever had any trouble playing out leg spin. off spinners saqlain and murali have bowled them out. michael clarke's left arm spin was good enough to wipe them out once. tauseef ahemad and iqbal qasim buried them once. even greg matthews took a tenfer against them. but no leg spinner has ever had a match winning - match turning spell against india in a long long time. so warne's good record against sri lanka and a horrendous record against india can be easily explained. the reason is.... he had no chance against the indian teams he played; they were just too good for his type of bowling.And Sri Lanka in the 00s were spanking spin bowlers in SL - pretty sure you've seen this as an Indian fan yourself. Warne in 04 in Sri Lanka was simply irresistible against them. There's no way Sri Lanka were that bad against spin and India were that good, to explain the difference between his records against those two countries.
That's a pretty big extrapolation.
That was a reply to the conclusion drawn by someone that 'Grimmett is not as good as the other 3 because he didn't do extraordinarily well against England'.Fixed.
I am pretty sure that after reading post no. 230 (the post above this one) by me, you wouldn't have this confusion any longer.Still, even as it is, you're suggesting that Grimmett is better than Murali because of that one fact. Which, I think, is flawed.
7 or 8 teams of a decent standard is by no means equal to 7 or 8 batting lineups of a decent standard against spin bowling.It's different when there's only four teams going around, and two are in their infancy; as opposed to when there are 7 or 8 teams getting around of a decent standard.
This. Grimmett faced 3 teams and the only one that was any good pretty much handled him. O'Reilly did much better than him, although in comparison to Warne/Murali he too is helped by playing a significant proportion of matches against weak opposition. Actually, when you look at it in those terms, it kinda pushes Warne/Murali to an even higher stratosphere in terms of spin bowlers.The point was that there was a very large discrepancy between Grimmett with regards to England and the weaker teams of the time. It's different when there's only four teams going around, and two are in their infancy; as opposed to when there are 7 or 8 teams getting around of a decent standard.