*Official* Road to the 2010/11 Ashes

[Spark]

Could just watch a NSW game tbf.

Touché.

 

[GIMH]

Time for a subforum IMO

 

[zaremba]

If he did, it seems strange that he refused to bat above 5 on our last tour there and England had to take such measures as having Collingwood bat above him.

I've never quite understood the clamour for KP to bat higher up the order. He came into the team as a number 5, excelled there and seemed to like it. If he's happy and successful in the middle order, bingo, that's where he should bat. Not sure why pressurising him to convert into a top-order player is either necessary or wise.

It's a bit different in limited-overs cricket, where I can see the sense of getting him to the wicket as early as possible.

 

[Pothas]

Yeah, Pietersen is not a top order batsman, he never has been.

Think the only reason people wanted him to bat 3 was because England have been weak there, am sure if Dravid did not exist people would want Sachin to have batted at 3.

Luckily we seem to have our number 3 sorted now so it should really not be an issue again.

Anyway want the Ashes to start already, going to be so so good. Already hate this Football season so will be waiting impatiently for the next few months.

 

[Prince EWS]

I've never quite understood the clamour for KP to bat higher up the order. He came into the team as a number 5, excelled there and seemed to like it. If he's happy and successful in the middle order, bingo, that's where he should bat. Not sure why pressurising him to convert into a top-order player is either necessary or wise.

It's a bit different in limited-overs cricket, where I can see the sense of getting him to the wicket as early as possible.

Yeah, the only idea more ridiculous than deliberately putting Pietersen up against the new ball would be deliberately having him bat his entire innings with the tail. Four's a good spot to stop both those things happening.

 

[tooextracool]

I've never quite understood the clamour for KP to bat higher up the order. He came into the team as a number 5, excelled there and seemed to like it. If he's happy and successful in the middle order, bingo, that's where he should bat. Not sure why pressurising him to convert into a top-order player is either necessary or wise.

It's a bit different in limited-overs cricket, where I can see the sense of getting him to the wicket as early as possible.

I was a huge advocate of having him bat at 5 for the series, honestly best player should get to bat wherever he wants. However after innings like these : HowSTAT! Match Scorecard

and

HowSTAT! Match Scorecard

it became pretty obvious that they needed to do something to avoid him slogging out with the tail every game.

My personal opinion is the best batsman should get to bat where he wants. The problem is that we have 3 players who want to bat number 5 at the moment and all 3 are currently playing better than him.

 

[zaremba]

Fair points TEC.

I'm not sure that batting at number 5 should mean frequently batting with the tail - or if it does, that that should be a particular problem. Given the current England batting line-up, the no.5 will be followed by another specialist batsman, then Prior at 7, then two handy and attacking bowling all-rounders in Swann and Broad, and then a couple of decent-ish defensive tailenders. It's not as though he's coming in at 9 with only Malcolm and Tuffers for company.

 

[tooextracool]

Fair points TEC.

I'm not sure that batting at number 5 should mean frequently batting with the tail - or if it does, that that should be a particular problem. Given the current England batting line-up, the no.5 will be followed by another specialist batsman, then Prior at 7, then two handy and attacking bowling all-rounders in Swann and Broad, and then a couple of decent-ish defensive tailenders. It's not as though he's coming in at 9 with only Malcolm and Tuffers for company.

Yeah think it was more of a problem back then when we had Flintoff at 6, G. Jones/Read at 7 and Saj at 8. Problem now though is different. Who bats at 4? Would strange to penalize Bell for having done brilliantly recently by having him bat at 4, and I think Collingwood is just as well equipped as Pietersen at facing the newer ball.

 

[aussie]

What i hope will be the Ashes touring squad ATS:

1. Strauss
2. Cook??
3. Trott
4. KP
5. Collingwood
6. Bell
7. Prior
8. Swann
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. Finn

12. Morgan
13. Davies/G Jones/Kieswetter
14. Onions*
15. Bresnan
16. Shazad/Tremlett/Sidebottom
17. Key/Carberry

Cook clearly cant go to Ashes. He will surely fail. His technical flaws that where first exposed in the 2006/07 Ashes has never gone away. That hundred in SA last winter, looking back i'm not sure how he did that.

The unfortunate thing is even if he fails in 2nd innings of the current test & is dropped. The potential back-up options on the county circuit dont exactly give much confidence. Carberry is obviously the man in form & is next line, but watching him bat i certainly dont believe he has the tecnique to handle quality international pace attacks. Like the current PAK attack (presuming he is called up if Cook fails & is dropped) nor down under this winter.

The more popular & likely scenario is that Trott may be tried as a makeshift opener however. But obviously making the transition from # 3 to opener is not an easy mental transition. Few batsmen (top players) in test history have done that well, while many have failed @ it. Much less Trott who isn't any great player. Plus given that Trott struggled last winter againts the quality SA attack (similar to what he will face in AUS) & in this current series vs the quality PAK attack he has just been decent. It is a nervy proposition to throw him into opening role in AUS, Since 1 or 2 early failures & we are back to square one.

I personally think Rob Key is Cook best opener replacement. Key played test before & did ok, so at least we know what he could handle test cricket to a fair degree. Since he last played for England, he has definately improved as a batsmen (even if this season he is not tearing it up on the domestic circuit).

Too bad Stephen Moore, they guy who scored that superb hundred in the 2009 Ashes 1st test warm-up that was shows on TV for ENG lions (againts Lee bowling @ 100%) hasn't kicked on this season since moving to Lancashire & is now injured. Certainly liked the look of him..

But damn, it times like this i wish Trescothick was still available. If he was Cook would have been axed since last summer & this problem wouldn't be around today.


Anyway...looking @ the rest of the potential touring squad. Another spinner in jokers like Tredwell & Rashid definately should not tour. If Swann GOD FORBIN where to get injured, 4 quicks should certainly play.

If Onions doesn't come back in time. One of Tremlett of Sidebottom will go, preferably Tremlett ATS for me.

Well with Broad's century. No need to Bresnan to tour, although he could still tour if Onions doesn't recover in time.

Tremlett & Sidebottom fighting for one spot.

 

[blahblahblah]

where has S jones gone?

i really loved to see him play

watta swinger of bowl he is

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Well with Broad's century. No need to Bresnan to tour, although he could still tour if Onions doesn't recover in time.

Tremlett & Sidebottom fighting for one spot.

No chance of Sidebottom touring,Bresnan is ahead of him or he wouldn't have been in the 12 for the last 3 tests.Tremlett would be a big surprise given his injury record and the fact he is playing in Div 2 which is a pathetic standard in comparison to Div 1 where Bresnan,Shahzad,Sidebottom and Onions play.

 

[wpdavid]

where has S jones gone?

i really loved to see him play

watta swinger of bowl he is

Long term injured. He played a few games for Worcestershire last summer and did well, but then got crocked again. As a test player, he's already filed alongside Richard Ellison.

 

[aussie]

No chance of Sidebottom touring,Bresnan is ahead of him or he wouldn't have been in the 12 for the last 3 tests.Tremlett would be a big surprise given his injury record and the fact he is playing in Div 2 which is a pathetic standard in comparison to Div 1 where Bresnan,Shahzad,Sidebottom and Onions play.

Sidebottom should be ahead of Bresnan who is not test quality. Sidebottom being a left-armer brings obvious variety to the bowling attack.

Although Tremlett is indeed playing in poor standard Div 2, i think we can cut him some slack. In his debut series vs IND 07 he already proved he was international quality, injuries have kept him back since then. So all he really needed to do this seasonw was prove he can play a full season before being considered again and he is doing that & has a very good chance of going to the Ashes ATM.

 

[Prince EWS]

Rate Tremlett highly; would do particularly well out here too IMO. Get him on the plane.

 

[tooextracool]

Reckon they missed a real chance to check out Ajmal Shahzad this series, now it would be too much of a liability to take him on a tour to Australia. Tremlett for me ahead of all challengers.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Reckon they missed a real chance to check out Ajmal Shahzad this series, now it would be too much of a liability to take him on a tour to Australia. Tremlett for me ahead of all challengers.

Both to tour IMHO, Tiny Tim will go with the Loins.

Squad will be (shy of injuries) 11 @ Lords plus Bell, Davies, Rashid, Shahzad & Tremlett.

 

[wpdavid]

Both to tour IMHO, Tiny Tim will go with the Loins.

Squad will be (shy of injuries) 11 @ Lords plus Bell, Davies, Rashid, Shahzad & Tremlett.

Sounds right, unless the 2nd keeper is with the Performance squad / Lions

 

[chicane]

Although Tremlett is indeed playing in poor standard Div 2, i think we can cut him some slack. In his debut series vs IND 07 he already proved he was international quality, injuries have kept him back since then. So all he really needed to do this seasonw was prove he can play a full season before being considered again and he is doing that & has a very good chance of going to the Ashes ATM.

Really? I heard he was incapable of providing a challenge to the Indians in 07 and only played as part of a second string attack.

Although IND did indeed stutter in the 1st test @ Lord's. The fact that ENG lost their entire 1st choice attack due to injury before the series always gave IND an advantage.

That inexperienced ENG attack was NEVER going to be good enough to stay on top of that super experienced IND for an entire series & so it proved to be - only a quality ENG attack was going to test them. Once Flintoff, Harmo, Hoggard where their ENG would have definately won, especially when you consider in IND 05/06 a full-stenght ENG attack drew in IND (winning the Mumbai test which had very English like bowling conditions).

IND winning in ENG 07 againts an reserve inexperienced ENG attack, is like a team winning in IND without Kumble/Harbhajan playing & having to face Raju/Kapoor/Joshi.

 

[vcs]

Really? I heard he was incapable of providing a challenge to the Indians in 07 and only played as part of a second string attack.

Owned.

 

[TT Boy]

Aussie = Richard lite.