*Official* Pakistan in England 2010

[pskov]

Prior is a big boundary hitter and isn't that adept at working the strike with quick singles and is an average runner (quick between the wickets but not the best judge of a run). Players like him always struggle in ODI cricket, even if they are quick scores in the long form of the game.

 

[aussie]

No Shah should never be let near the international team again. Awful fielder, awful running, mediocre batsman. To boot he's also in rubbish form for his county, hence he's buggered off somewhere else before he gets dropped.

Shah's running between the wicket & fielding woes has always been overplayed. Plus the fact that @ the time when he was dropped for ENG last year was horribly stupid from the ENG selectors, when he was dropped for Cook - given he one of ENG best ODI batsmeen between 2007-2009, when he cemented a regular place.

Plus i'm not sure what you have been following, But Shah is Middlesex's leading T20 & List A this season. I was quite stunned to see Middlesex are releasing him.

Shah is a proven batsmen againts international bowling & i would always back him to well againts such attacks, which was shown by his 92 in that tour match vs AUS earlier this summer. He certainly deserved to be in the ODI & T20 squad over Bopara who is a nothing player these days.

 

[four_or_six]

I'm not actually sure it's possible to overplay Shah's running between the wicket woes.

 

[King Pietersen]

Bopara's younger, a better batsman, in better form, offers bowling, runs better between the wickets, is better in the field and played a blinder in England's last ODi game. I can't see why he's been picked ahead of Shah either.

 

[aussie]

I'm not actually sure it's possible to overplay Shah's running between the wicket woes.

Its an issue, but its not as bad as some have suggested over the years. I actually think he has improved. When he went to IPL earlier this year, i didn't notice too much problem with his running between the wickets.

Bopara's younger, a better batsman, in better form, offers bowling, runs better between the wickets, is better in the field and played a blinder in England's last ODi game. I can't see why he's been picked ahead of Shah either.

Him being younger is irrelveant. He is not a better batsman than Shah, Bopara is proven joker @ international level with the bat - while Shah is a proven performer. His good current form smoking average county bowling & Bangladesh earlier this season means nothing - since the proper PAK bowling will expose his technical flaws again.

How good he is in in the field, his running nor his bowling are irrelevant given he is failure @ his main task - which is batting.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Shah was complete and utter **** until the last 2 years of his England career. Then he elevated his batting to mediocrity, whilst still being an awful fielder and runner. So how is Shah not a 'proven joker' compared to someone like Bopara?

I don't particularly like Bopara but he seems to have built up his strength over the past few months. He's obviously nowhere near Uthappa's power yet, but I would draw a comparison with him. On pure raw batting he wasn't good enough, but if you add in the power hitting it's a completely different equation as far as limited overs cricket goes.

 

[Flyonthewall]

It's comical how Aussie pretty much creates arguments to suit his own positions. Seeing how Bopara averages only a couple of points under Shah in ODIs (28 to 30), I fail to see how you can say one of them is a joker and one of them a proven performer. Surely they're both just fairly mediocre international batsmen? Which is where Bopara's comparative youthfulness comes in, as he has the ability to develop into a goodish one-day player, whereas Shah...doesn't. Sure, on his day, Shah is glorious to watch, but given his day comes about once every ten matches (and also relies upon him not making some dreadful ****-up betweeen the wickets), and also he isn't likely to develop much as a player, why bother with him? Not to mention that Shah hasn't been able to "smoke" the "average county bowling" that Bopara has this season, which following Aussie logic would appear to suggest that Bopara>>>>>>>>Shah.

Of course, all this doesn't actually really matter that much, considering that Bopara is unlinkely to play at all barring a few injuries. I am slightly dissapointed that Samit Patel wasn't considered, but otherwise I do believe that England are moving closer towards their best side for the World Cup. Onwards and upwards!

 

[Fusion]

Interesting interview with Zulqarnain Haider on a Pakistani TV channel. Since it’s in Urdu, I’ll summarize the main parts:

• He suffered his finger injury in practice but soon recovered. He says the injury flared up again as a result of the Broad throw.
• Question: Isn’t it normal for WK’s to play with this sort of injury? His response: Yes, WK’s do play on with these sorts of injuries. However the decision to send him back was of the PCB and since he’s an employee, he has to comply.
• Question: Do you believe you were pushed out of the team? His response: If someone digs a ditch for another, they usually fall on it themselves.

That’s a really bold interview IMO. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that he thought he was fit enough to play and was pushed out. I like his honesty, but considering he works for total ****s, he may have seriously damaged his career here.


Link to the interview

 

[aussie]

Shah was complete and utter **** until the last 2 years of his England career. Then he elevated his batting to mediocrity, whilst still being an awful fielder and runner. So how is Shah not a 'proven joker' compared to someone like Bopara?

We probably have different definitions for the word "medicore". Since i cant see how him averaging 35, in a period where even KP was averaging in the low 30s in ODIs. Shah was clearly one of ENG most dependable bats during the 2007-2009 period.

Of course he had his running & fielding issues, but as i said they where always exaggerated. After the CT 2009, with the emergence of Morgan & Trott he understandably lost his place in the final XI for both the ODI & T20. But he should NEVER have been axed from those squads altogether for the SA tour. The reason for his axing ATT was Alastair Cooks "so called improvement" based on bashing mediorcre county OD attacks , under the guide of Graham Gooch. That proved to be farce recall, Cook failed in SA & UAE & BANG, was dropped again.

Bopara on the other hand looked totally out of his depth vs AUS last summer in the 6-1 series trashing & overall has spent his entire ODI career shuffling between opening & down the order. To date its very unclear what his best role in the ODI set-up

I don't particularly like Bopara but he seems to have built up his strength over the past few months. He's obviously nowhere near Uthappa's power yet, but I would draw a comparison with him. On pure raw batting he wasn't good enough, but if you add in the power hitting it's a completely different equation as far as limited overs cricket goes.

I think he always had the ability to hit big. He just is incapable of doing it againts quality international bowling.

It's comical how Aussie pretty much creates arguments to suit his own positions. Seeing how Bopara averages only a couple of points under Shah in ODIs (28 to 30), I fail to see how you can say one of them is a joker and one of them a proven performer. Surely they're both just fairly mediocre international batsmen? Which is where Bopara's comparative youthfulness comes in, as he has the ability to develop into a goodish one-day player, whereas Shah...doesn't. Sure, on his day, Shah is glorious to watch, but given his day comes about once every ten matches (and also relies upon him not making some dreadful ****-up betweeen the wickets), and also he isn't likely to develop much as a player, why bother with him? Not to mention that Shah hasn't been able to "smoke" the "average county bowling" that Bopara has this season, which following Aussie logic would appear to suggest that Bopara>>>>>>>>Shah.

Of course, all this doesn't actually really matter that much, considering that Bopara is unlinkely to play at all barring a few injuries. I am slightly dissapointed that Samit Patel wasn't considered, but otherwise I do believe that England are moving closer towards their best side for the World Cup. Onwards and upwards!

As i said above. Shah between 2007-2009 averaged 35 where he generally played as a # 6 finisher. While Bopara:

Bopara on the other hand looked totally out of his depth vs AUS last summer in the 6-1 series trashing & overall has spent his entire ODI career shuffling between opening & down the order. To date its very unclear what his best role in the ODI set-up.

Fairly obvious Shah was the proven performer before stupidly dropped & Bopara the joker for the majority of his ODI career.

I see no evidence that Bopara has the ability has the ability to become a decentish ODI player based on his recent performances. All i see is player capable of doing well againts joke attacks & doesn't know what his best role @ international level is in the ODI or T20 teams.

I'm not advocating for Shah to be in the ENG 2011 WC squad for example. When Bell & KP returns he is unlikely to make the squad. But he clearly should always be ahead of Bopara in the pecking order especially for the current ODI series vs PAK.

To your final point of:

Not to mention that Shah hasn't been able to "smoke" the "average county bowling" that Bopara has this season, which following Aussie logic would appear to suggest that Bopara>>>>>>>>Shah.

If you have followed ENG ODI performances since the 1992 WC, its fairly obvious the domestic ODI cricket has been very mediocre in the last 2 decades, which is why many players who have done well in domestic list A cricket in various positions i.e Ali Brown, Matt Fleming, Hollioke Bro's, Douggie Brown, Ronnie Irani, Mark Alleyne, Maddy, James Foster, Mustard, Blackwell, Dalrymple, Snape, Ealham (although he had his good days), Vaughan, Kirtley, Mahmood, Loye etc etc....all struggled to translate that form on the international stage.

Few players such as Collingwood, Swann, Kieswetter, Mascarenhas, Wright (to a level although he is still questionable), Shah, Trescothick, Knight, Broad, Gough, Mullaly, Lumb have risen above that mediocrity & stepped up @ international level.

So its is totally unwise to look @ a player dominating in domesitc limited overs cricket in ENG & take it as a clear guide as to how they would go in international cricket. Other factor such as raw ability should be considered. Theirfore there is no way after looking awful & being technically exposed vs AUS last summer could Bopara have gone back to county cricket in a few months & have improved his game dominating mediocre county attacks so quickly.

 

[Faisal1985]

Interesting interview with Zulqarnain Haider on a Pakistani TV channel. Since it’s in Urdu, I’ll summarize the main parts:

• He suffered his finger injury in practice but soon recovered. He says the injury flared up again as a result of the Broad throw.
• Question: Isn’t it normal for WK’s to play with this sort of injury? His response: Yes, WK’s do play on with these sorts of injuries. However the decision to send him back was of the PCB and since he’s an employee, he has to comply.
• Question: Do you believe you were pushed out of the team? His response: If someone digs a ditch for another, they usually fall on it themselves.

That’s a really bold interview IMO. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that he thought he was fit enough to play and was pushed out. I like his honesty, but considering he works for total ****s, he may have seriously damaged his career here.


Link to the interview

Brilliant answer!!!!!

 

[GIMH]

Haider fast becoming a worldwide favourite surely

 

[Jarquis]

Aussie being harsh on Foster, reckon he'd be a great option if England were to pick a keeper to bat at 7.

 

[aussie]

Aussie being harsh on Foster, reckon he'd be a great option if England were to pick a keeper to bat at 7.

Not really you know. If you recall during the T20 WC last year, he was picked based on a mixture of sound keeping & his ability to be a late order big hitter based on his form for essex.

But he totally strugggled to translate that big hitting ability againts international bowling - just his keeping was sound. So he would be a bit of waste in a ODI team batting @ 7.

He could have been our test keeper for the majority of the post Stewart era of the last decade batting @ # 8, if Flintoff & S Jones was 100% fit for most of his career thus allwoing ENG to play with 4 bowlers.

 

[Donkey]

Can you give me the results of the future games, please?
Here's £150k in cash.

 

[Manee]

I don't particularly like Bopara but he seems to have built up his strength over the past few months. He's obviously nowhere near Uthappa's power yet, but I would draw a comparison with him.

I recall Uthappa in the IPL saying that he'd increased his bench press from 100kg to 150kg over the winter - that it insane and surely that has to have improved his hitting exponentially. Anyway, back on topic .

 

[Woodster]

Not really you know. If you recall during the T20 WC last year, he was picked based on a mixture of sound keeping & his ability to be a late order big hitter based on his form for essex.

But he totally strugggled to translate that big hitting ability againts international bowling - just his keeping was sound. So he would be a bit of waste in a ODI team batting @ 7.

He could have been our test keeper for the majority of the post Stewart era of the last decade batting @ # 8, if Flintoff & S Jones was 100% fit for most of his career thus allwoing ENG to play with 4 bowlers.

It's fair to say Foster did struggle in the dying stages of England's innings, wouldn't necessary class him as a great choice if a side is looking for someone to clear the boundary at the death.He does have a habit of finding the boundary for Essex, but much more an innovator and a manipulator of the field with canny deflections and the ability to strike a pretty clean ball if it's in the right area.

But late order big hitting I wouldn't think is his style. His keeping was outstanding in that T20 competition and I think he was unlucky to lose his place after that.

 

[marc71178]

Dont really agree with Kieswetter being dropped from the ODI squad at all, although he had his issues vs the AUS in last ODI series. He is still the best option ENG have of taking advantage of the power-play overs.

Is that based on his less-than-stellar showing in ODIs or his much-worse-than-Davies showing in County Cricket?

 

[marc71178]

But he should NEVER have been axed from those squads altogether for the SA tour. The reason for his axing ATT was Alastair Cooks "so called improvement" based on bashing mediorcre county OD attacks , under the guide of Graham Gooch. That proved to be farce recall, Cook failed in SA & UAE & BANG, was dropped again.

I agree, in not playing in SA or UAE Cook was clearly a failure.

To be fair only scoring 64 (68), 60 (61) and 32 (43) in Bangladesh was also woeful.

Also, seeing as Cook was selected as an opening batsman how was his recall in place of Shah?

 

[Prince EWS]

Shah was complete and utter **** until the last 2 years of his England career. Then he elevated his batting to mediocrity, whilst still being an awful fielder and runner. So how is Shah not a 'proven joker' compared to someone like Bopara?

I don't particularly like Bopara but he seems to have built up his strength over the past few months. He's obviously nowhere near Uthappa's power yet, but I would draw a comparison with him. On pure raw batting he wasn't good enough, but if you add in the power hitting it's a completely different equation as far as limited overs cricket goes.

Yeah, he's also been bowling surprisingly well lately. I think he should be filling the Luke Wright role at the moment; he's developed into a similar player but with more genuine substance there from his days of pretending to be a real batsmen.

 

[Top_Cat]

I recall Uthappa in the IPL saying that he'd increased his bench press from 100kg to 150kg over the winter - that it insane and surely that has to have improved his hitting exponentially. Anyway, back on topic .

haha, marker of a douchebag when they boast about their bench weight. Usually means "I can lift 150Kg on the bench........once."

As for the topic at hand, I back the anti-Shah brigade. The guy's a flake.