*Official* - Road to India in England 2011

[Shri]

Don't tell me that hacks like Finn and Broad are better than Devon Malcolm, Angus Fraser, Hoggard, Flintoff, Jones, Harmison, Caddick, Mullaly etc on English conditions. That **** just doesn't go down well with me.

Just feel that it is a disgrace to compare this new lot with the England bowlers of the recent past. Will be the first person to feel good if they prove me wrong and go on to achieve good things. Very interesting to note that Sachin has never faced Gough(arguably the most consistent Eng bowler in the 90s) in his test career.

 

[tooextracool]

Don't tell me that hacks like Finn and Broad are better than Devon Malcolm, Angus Fraser, Hoggard, Flintoff, Jones, Harmison, Caddick, Mullaly etc on English conditions. That **** just doesn't go down well with me.

I think its pretty obvious that Broad is a better bowler than Jones (in his debut series), Flintoff (circa 2002), Harmison (debut series) and Mullally (any series) . I dont remember Fraser of Malcolm ever bowling against India in a home series, I suppose maybe they did in the late 80s/early 90s before I started watching.

The point anyhow which Aussie is trying to make is that an attack including Anderson and Swann in English conditions will probably be the toughest India would have faced in England over the past couple of decades.

 

[Shri]

Meh, I am biased and what you say doesn't count. I have psychologically won the argument already.

 

[Sir Alex]

You also said "his record outside Ban and Zim is mediocre", which is not a fair, or factually substantiated statement.

Apart from NZ it still is.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Apart from NZ it still is.

That makes even less sense than the original statement.

 

[Jarquis]

Apparently averageing 45-50 is mediocre. Thus New Zealand being the exception, worse than mediocre.

 

[Prince EWS]

Bell, that'd be England's best batsman for the past 12 months

And the bloke that was in Sir Alex's avatar for six months, at that

 

[Prince EWS]

Not a pisstake but if we see English batting lineup

Cook - Well can he hang around after Ashes? Has looked terribly scratchy except for that one 100
Strauss - Same as Cook but discount the hundred
KP - Already dropped from ODI and T20 side.. Can he survive the Ashes?
Collingwood - Whatever you said about Laxman X 2
Bell - Who?
Morgan - Has so far flattered to deceive. About on par with Raina.

Hmm...

Uppercut had conceded all that, though. He said that despite all those question marks over India's batting he listed, he still expects it to be better than England's - just not by as much as people are assuming.

I'm inclined to agree, although I'll also add that if everyone's fit I don't expect the gap between India's bowling and England's bowling to be huge either.

 

[Prince EWS]

The point anyhow which Aussie is trying to make is that an attack including Anderson and Swann in English conditions will probably be the toughest India would have faced in England over the past couple of decades.

Well what was the attack like last time India toured? Anderson was there.. Swann wasn't, but I'd take a fully fit Tremlett and Sidebottom over a Broad/Finn combination any day of the week. I'll agree today's English attack is better because of Swann, but not by enough to draw the line between a quality English attack and a poor one. I don't think there's much in it.

 

[aussie]

Well what was the attack like last time India toured? Anderson was there.. Swann wasn't, but I'd take a fully fit Tremlett and Sidebottom over a Broad/Finn combination any day of the week. I'll agree today's English attack is better because of Swann, but not by enough to draw the line between a quality English attack and a poor one. I don't think there's much in it.

Anderson of 2010 is wayyyy better than Anderson of 2007. But if you compare the 4-man attack man for ma & roles vs roles - the 2010 class is ahead.

Anderson 2010>Sidebottom 07: Both the leaders of the attacks during the respective series. Would hvae to give Anderson the edge since he is more lethal when the ball is swinging now than Sidebottom circa 07/08.

Broad 10>>>Anderson. Broad very much an established bowler today. Anderson is 07 was still finding his way in test cricket after spending much of 2003-2006 period in & out of the test team because of injury, better bowlers around etc.

Tremett 07=Finn 10. Even for sure. But one can argue if Onions was fit he would be ahead of Finn, which would have made the 2010 class 3-0 ahead of the 07 class. Since Onions when the ball is swinging is more lethal than Tremlett of Finn who are hit-the-deck type bowlers.


And obviously Swann is better than Panesar by the lenght of England.

 

[Prince EWS]

Agree on Anderson. I reckon Tremlett has a lot more to him than Finn though.

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah I reckon Finn shouldnt be in the test side at the moment, especially while we have Broad and Anderson's inconsistencies as a feature of the attack.

 

[GIMH]

Since when is that necessarily a desirable quality?

I didn't say it was, but it's relevant to the baseless point vcs made

 

[vcs]

I didn't say it was, but it's relevant to the baseless point vcs made

Not really baseless, look at this.

 

[GIMH]

Wouldn't personally call that a contradiction, myself

 

[Uppercut]

I'm inclined to agree, although I'll also add that if everyone's fit I don't expect the gap between India's bowling and England's bowling to be huge either.

Big if. But I do agree. England's batting and bowling aren't that far apart, the relative quality of Pakistan's batting and bowling just made that appear to be the case this summer.

Could be the case that whoever deals better with the opposing spinner will take the series.

 

[vcs]

Wouldn't personally call that a contradiction, myself

The point is he repeatedly argues himself into corners like that because he refuses to give credit where it's due and prefers to attribute good performances by individuals/teams to the crapness of the opposition. Never makes for a productive discussion, that.

 

[aussie]

Wouldn't personally call that a contradiction, myself

Indeed.

The point is he repeatedly argues himself into corners like that because he refuses to give credit where it's due and prefers to attribute good performances by individuals/teams to the crapness of the opposition. Never makes for a productive discussion, that.

Unbelievable.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Jeff.

 

[Chehtha]

Expecting an exciting series considering England's superb run of form of late and also India batting star power.