Where to now for Pakistan?

[Sanz]

We've just been through this in the Fresh match fixing allegations thread with Faisal, Sanz. This sort of crap is in no way appropriate and is only going to provoke other members. Consider this a warning.

Sorry, Post edited.

 

[honestbharani]

Athers has just written an article on how this all happened only because the power centre in cricket moved to the east.


Yeah right, that is why fixing is happening in Australia and England..

 

[Spark]

Athers has just written an article on how this all happened only because the power centre in cricket moved to the east.


Yeah right, that is why fixing is happening in Australia and England..

That's a pretty silly argument. Not really suggesting that because they occur in Australia and England, hence Australians and Englishmen are to blame?

 

[honestbharani]

That's a pretty silly argument. Not really suggesting that because they occur in Australia and England, hence Australians and Englishmen are to blame?

Not as silly as blaming the subcontinent for match fixing issues...

 

[Spark]

Not as silly as blaming the subcontinent for match fixing issues...

How is it silly? The culprits are all subcontinental and it is not a huge stretch to say that the reason this is so is because of the prevailing culture in the region.

 

[vcs]

“Given the shift of cricket’s power to the east, given the way cricket is uniquely placed to offer betting opportunities, given that it is a game played by human beings and given that the governing body is weak, it is unlikely that an absolute end to corruption will come any time soon,” he wrote in ‘The Times’

Don't see much wrong with what he's written, TBH. Still, there's not much worth saying on this issue until the investigations are completed apart from that it's terrible for the sport and the fans.

 

[honestbharani]

How is it silly? The culprits are all subcontinental and it is not a huge stretch to say that the reason this is so is because of the prevailing culture in the region.

well.. for starters the power centre is India and we have not yet been implicated to the extent of a Pak or RSA.. Secondly, the matches that are getting fixed are not between subcontinental sides as far as we know and the matches are happening outside the subcontinent as well, which would show the police there in poor light, for me.


And it is not something that won't happen. IF the same big money came into the game from Australia and same sort of craze existed for the game there, you would have Aussie bookies going in to make the same millions too. It is a problem due to the circumstances and not the location of the power in the game currently... The problem is that cricket is so much ahead to the next sport in India and this is where many are ready to make a quick buck. This, for me, would have happened anywhere in the world if a sport was so much ahead of the next and was the biggest passion for a whole nation.

 

[Spark]

well.. for starters the power centre is India and we have not yet been implicated to the extent of a Pak or RSA.. Secondly, the matches that are getting fixed are not between subcontinental sides as far as we know and the matches are happening outside the subcontinent as well, which would show the police there in poor light, for me.

But you cannot deny that the impetus for this is due to the massive illegal betting market in India which is driving the whole thing due to the massive TV audiences. Supply and demand.

And it is not something that won't happen. IF the same big money came into the game from Australia and same sort of craze existed for the game there, you would have Aussie bookies going in to make the same millions too.

Can you prove this? I see no evidence of this, there is a lot of money going around the legal betting circuits in Australia but that's the point - legal.

It is a problem due to the circumstances and not the location of the power in the game currently... The problem is that cricket is so much ahead to the next sport in India and this is where many are ready to make a quick buck. This, for me, would have happened anywhere in the world if a sport was so much ahead of the next and was the biggest passion for a whole nation.

But this is exactly what is meant by "subcontinental problem".

 

[G.I.Joe]

how is it silly? The culprits are all subcontinental and it is not a huge stretch to say that the reason this is so is because of the prevailing culture in the region.

 

[honestbharani]

But you cannot deny that the impetus for this is due to the massive illegal betting market in India which is driving the whole thing due to the massive TV audiences. Supply and demand.




Can you prove this? I see no evidence of this, there is a lot of money going around the legal betting circuits in Australia but that's the point - legal.



But this is exactly what is meant by "subcontinental problem".

No it is not.. circumstance does not = geography..

 

[honestbharani]

But you cannot deny that the impetus for this is due to the massive illegal betting market in India which is driving the whole thing due to the massive TV audiences. Supply and demand.




Can you prove this? I see no evidence of this, there is a lot of money going around the legal betting circuits in Australia but that's the point - legal.



But this is exactly what is meant by "subcontinental problem".

I said IF the same situation existed. Are you saying every single guy who is making money in Australia is doing it legally???????

 

[Spark]

I said IF the same situation existed. Are you saying every single guy who is making money in Australia is doing it legally???????

Do you have any evidence otherwise? At the moment you're making unsubstantiated claims and I'm well past the stage where I can such things on face value.

 

[honestbharani]

Do you have any evidence otherwise? At the moment you're making unsubstantiated claims and I'm well past the stage where I can such things on face value.

You are making pretty silly claims here telling it is a subcontinental problem yourself. And you haven't shown any proof either. Quite rich to ask proof off others when my very point starts with IF. Unless you PROVE why it is so, we are not taking anything seriously... Sure, Pakistan were involved and the NOTW said we are from the middle east but what exactly does it prove. Why haven't matches held IN the subcontinent not been fixed if the SC was the reason for all this fixing evil? Why is it that the matches were held in Australia and England that just happened to be "fixed"? Does it mean the policing is waay less there than here? If so, how the hell is the SC the reason for all this?????

 

[Spark]

You are making pretty silly claims here telling it is a subcontinental problem yourself. And you haven't shown any proof either. Quite rich to ask proof off others when my very point starts with IF. Unless you PROVE why it is so, we are not taking anything seriously... Sure, Pakistan were involved and the NOTW said we are from the middle east but what exactly does it prove. Why haven't matches held IN the subcontinent not been fixed if the SC was the reason for all this fixing evil? Why is it that the matches were held in Australia and England that just happened to be "fixed"? Does it mean the policing is waay less there than here? If so, how the hell is the SC the reason for all this?????

But there is quite blatant evidence that these subcontinental betting syndicates are involved in this sort of business, so when the coin falls it will fall on the side with more evidence.

And indeed in this situation there have been talks to links with Indian betting syndicates and the like.

As for the last reason... who is more at fault, the criminal for the crime, or the policeman for failing to stop it?

I'm not saying it is a purely subcontinental problem, but your claim that it is more of an English/Australian problem? Please.

 

[Matt79]

Hb/Spark - this is pretty irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Why is this even being argued? Blaming the "impetus provided by the massive illegal betting market in India which is driving the whole thing due to the massive TV audiences" for this is equivalent to blaming scantily clad women for rapes, and ***ual promiscuity for abortions. The fault lies with the perpetrators alone. It is ridiculous to spout nonsense about supply and demand economics and pin the blame on an entire ethnicity.

 

[honestbharani]

Why is this even being argued? Blaming the "impetus provided by the massive illegal betting market in India which is driving the whole thing due to the massive TV audiences" for this is equivalent to blaming scantily clad women for rapes, and ***ual promiscuity for abortions. The fault lies with the perpetrators alone. It is ridiculous to spout nonsense about supply and demand economics and pin the blame on an entire ethnicity.

completely agree.. And I still stand by my point that IMO, this would have happened in any country IF the same situation was prevalent.

But will stop commenting on this any further as per Matt.

 

[Sir Alex]

Problem is not subcontinental culture. Problem is that India has incredible interest and money in cricket, so whether legal or illegal it'll be the hub for betting, and as an undesired but inevitable consequence, match fixing too.
Let me ask, why since 01 no Indian player has been ever linked to such episode? Answer is simple, the growth of cricket market has also resulted in better pay packets for the players. That, in addition to strong detterant measures, have resulted in eliminating the impetus for players to go for such stuff.

 

[Spark]

Let me ask, why since 01 no Indian player has been ever linked to such episode? Answer is simple, the growth of cricket market has also resulted in better pay packets for the players. That, in addition to strong detterant measures, have resulted in eliminating the impetus for players to go for such stuff.

Spot on, IMO.

 

[Sanz]

How is it silly? The culprits are all subcontinental and it is not a huge stretch to say that the reason this is so is because of the prevailing culture in the region.

What is the nationality of Majeed ?