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***Official*** Spot-Fixing Scandal

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
to be honest, most of our other "honorable" mps make azhar look like a saint...
Sure :-)

thats just the point I was trying to make.

There is no difference between our MP's, bureaucrats, crooks, smugglers AND sportsmen. We are all the same and great hypocrites to boot.

Everything is forgiven and forgotten with time, riots in Delhi or Gujarat, Mrs Gandhi's rape of democracy, the daily scandals by the same politicians for decades et al. Its not any different with errant sportsmen.

We will forgive the Aamirs of today as we forgave the Azhar's, Jadeja's, and Sharma's of yesterday. We will come out in defense of the cricketers of today with things like, minor offense, he must have been pressurised by others, they get sop little money poor guys, where is the proof (there never is any after decades of legal quagmire in our part of the world). One can just go on and on.

I am sorry to sound so negative but this is such a painful thing for me watching our downward slide over over the years and please dont give me this nonsense (not addressing you Anil) about Manmohan Singh being an honest politician. The poor guy cant win a single election in our country and thats the point I am trying to make.

Don't also give me the great strides India has made as a nation and the ten percent growth rate. Hansie Cronje wasn't excused for the strides South African cricket made.

We are so thick-skinned and so damned defensive when it comes to looking under our carpets and we expect things to improve?

I am sorry for the temper but this really pisses me off.

MP ----> honourable seems like quiet a large jump to me.
I agree with that completely :laugh:

PS : just to remind, this is not targetteed at any of you guys Anil and others. I am just letting off steam at the one thing that really always manages to put me off :-(
 
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cover drive man

International Captain
Please, please, please read through what you post before hitting reply. There is no way on earth that these are analogous situations, and you appear very keen to paint every word or sentence uttered in black or white rather than appreciating the myriad shades of grey in between.

Not all slang is abusive. Not all abuse is slang. Yes, there is a crossover, but context is absolutely everything.
Hmm, sorry if I offended anyone.

They caught him later with the 11 yr old Thai girl.
As much as I don't like the notw I stand corrected. Sorry.
 

r3alist

U19 Cricketer
deeply disturbing


but not just because of the shame it ihas brought to cricket, pakistani cricket and pakistan but because how deep this is likely to run


my feeling is that the pak players are cheating scoundrels, especially butt, kamran and asif if they are indeed guilty but to bring young amir into all of this truly hurts, and because of his age and lets say "naivety" i hope he does not lose his whole career over this



but the most disturbing aspect is that this is likely to have some mafia connections, which means pakistani underworld and indian underworld - this takes this scandal into a whole new ballpark and makes me think that people like amir are not the biggest villans in this sorry episode.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Laughable this is becoming, or at least it would be were it not so serious.

Pakistan must be on the verge of being booted here, and for quite some time I imagine.
 

r3alist

U19 Cricketer
Let every Indian and pakistani put his hand on his heart and ask himself (you dont have to tell us) if he/she does not know of relatives who are in positions of influence and make money through corruption. I have some big ones in my family and they are not shunned by anyone. they are big shots and get royal treatment y family members even while people continue to shout themselves hoarse about the state of our countries.

All those who are exposed in this scandal will go scot free (unless you take a few hundred thousands as fine or missing a few tests as punishment enough) and will continue to play and the fans who are screaming blue murder will, by and large, be supportive of it. Two years from now we will be talking of "where is the proof".

We deserve the rot that exists in our systems for we do not have the balls to do anything about it.


this is a good point, and which is why i think what the pak players are allegedly meant to ahve done is deplorable i dont think they re the biggest villans in this.

i think that this extends to the big underworld betting market in india which majeed made a reference to and therefore the criminal underworld in pakistan and india and then finally its link to the officials and players in pakistan and their complicity in this


and because this is so far reaching i dont think there will be an appetite to get to the real root and causes of this problem
 

bagapath

International Captain
Slipped it between the pages of my regular purchase of Big Jugs Monthly ph34r:
good to see cricket grabbing the headlines in the sun. it is as sweet as having my photograph on the cover of wisden or Best Jugs Monthly (BB! can you scan the best pages of this month's edition and email me?)

Bob Willis' comments are genuinely touching. I wish Geoff Boycott's opinion on this issue is sought at the earliest. I expect him to take the "innocent until proven" route and maintain his great relationship with pakistan. Viru or Sunil Gavaskar would be fun to talk to.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
good to see cricket grabbing the headlines in the sun. it is as sweet as having my photograph on the cover of wisden or Best Jugs Monthly (BB! can you scan the best pages of this month's edition and email me?)

Bob Willis' comments are genuinely touching. I wish Geoff Boycott's opinion on this issue is sought at the earliest. I expect him to take the "innocent until proven" route and maintain his great relationship with pakistan. Viru or Sunil Gavaskar would be fun to talk to.
Heard him yesterday, went off on some tangents for a while. Wasn't exactly glowing about the Pakistan system.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
this is a good point, and which is why i think what the pak players are allegedly meant to ahve done is deplorable i dont think they re the biggest villans in this.
I think that's a great point. It's easy to get uptight about sportstars, but how many police officers, regular government workers, MPs, also take bribes? How much of the population have given a bribe to the police, at the airport, to a government employee? People don't even think about bribes anymore - it's just second nature to give and accept them.
 

r3alist

U19 Cricketer
I think that's a great point. It's easy to get uptight about sportstars, but how many police officers, regular government workers, MPs, also take bribes? How much of the population have given a bribe to the police, at the airport, to a government employee? People don't even think about bribes anymore - it's just second nature to give and accept them.
yep, although this is not an excuse, it cannot be.

i do not think the individuals involved are the ultimate guilty party, and also poverty is no excuse aswell, there is probably a very elaborate crime syndicate involved, spanning india, pakistan and england and it has permeated cricket - will the english police be bothered to investigate this thoroughly?
 

Shri

Mr. Glass
Pissed off coz this **** has taken the shine off the scorecard draft which was becoming the next best thing since sliced bread.:(
 

fromage

Cricket Spectator
First of all, lets get this into perspective and then we can think about what actions to take and the rout from here onwards

At the moment as far as I know the allegations are that some players took money from a 'cricket agent' to bowl deliberate no balls at certain moments in the match so as a punter could win on a spread bet.
The police have confiscated the mobile phones of several players and released the 'cricket agent' on bail.

So now what. well from my perspective

1 All the individuals involved should be suspended.Its a precautionary suspension, they are not guilty until proven otherwise.This is done to protect the parties concerned and the game of cricket and the paying spectator.Its a win win solution. Once it's clear who did what or even if anything was done, then disciplinary action can be taken.

2) Bandying about 'country bans' and or 'life bans' is just plain nonsense for me.
I seem to remember England cricket captains being filmed cheating (rubbing dirt on the ball) and no real action being taken. I don't condone cheating in any form, but let's face it spread betting is an incitement to cheating.
In rugby you could bet on when the scrum will be and tell the player to fumble (say in the first ten, ) or in football when the throw in will be (and tell them when to kick the ball out.)
People who say 'Its just not cricket' are naive and really this type of thing happens in every sport.

3 The discipline should be on a case by case scenario.We have to avoid 'blanket' applications.We can recommend punishments and then perhaps listen to the factors(youth,poverty,or whatever)

4 We certainly can't ban Pakistan as a nation from international cricket because A) its a pivotal nation and we risk splitting the game further into political camps
B) It serves no purpose to tar the country with the same brush. I'm sure there are innocent players in the camp.
C I'm not sure it works effectively (re South Africa, Zimbabwe) but I'm open to persuasion on this point.

TNOTW certainly gets with sting tactics,(and people with higher profiles have been stung, (sarah fergason)) and one could question thier tactics.
but the fact that we are talking about a no ball incident just shows us that this is the tip of the ice berg.
Cricket is a game where instead of bribing 11 or 15 , you can bribe one of the two openers (either bowler or batsman) and place bets on it.It's difficult to bet on a goal or a try, but a wicket is another problem.Even just bribing a player to tread on the wicket is a solution.

The rules for cricket (or laws) perhaps need tweaking, and perhaps the governing body needs to work with the betting industry to decide what can be bet on and what cannot.
If thats possible(and I doubt it is)


What punishments would I like to see? effective ones, but all to often in cricket we don't see it. Problems with positive drug testing and betting have been part of the game for a while, and I seem to recall Botham's ashes being involved in a betting scam.
When players and officials act as if there are no conscequences to thir actions then this is the result.

Yes there is space for redemption and after serving bans, players can come back. But if they make the same mistake again, then perhaps their career is over.

The ICC is now at the crossroads and its an organisation that's in the tussel of a fight for money and tv rights with cricket as a dim third. A new, independant governing body is now urgently needed if the specator and fan , sponser and investor are to have any faith in what they watch, or cricket will be the loser.Its time cricket playing nations stopped bickering and fighting over who knows what and that what's best for cricket is done.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
I read the article below by Geoff Lawson and was astonished by the bolded part.

Easy to overstep the mark when players' families' lives are at stake
Geoff Lawson
August 31, 2010

People have been quick to judge the Pakistani cricketers, but what is happening might have nothing to do with money.

If these allegations of fixing are proved, it could be related to extortion, threats, and the well-being of their own family members. It would not surprise me if illegal bookmakers have told players that if they do not perform X and Y, their families will be kidnapped or harmed.

In my time as Pakistan coach, I gained some incredible insights into the workings of the country and the team, and I'll never forget the time the team captain called me up to his room on the eve of a match.

Earlier that day, a player who we had not selected for the game approached me, saying: ''I was told I would be playing tomorrow.'' My response was, ''Well no, you're not, you've obviously been given the wrong information.''

Then the skipper of the side called me late in the evening. I went to his room and he was standing there with a very sombre-looking selector.

This selector said: ''We must pick [the player who had earlier approached me], I have been told that if he is not in the team tomorrow, my daughter will be kidnapped and I will not see her again.''

At first we both laughed, but then we realised he was being serious. Our chairman then called the president, Pervez Musharraf, who in turn phoned the people behind the threats and said they had better reconsider or else. The next we heard the matter had been resolved.

We must also remember that we are judging these guys by the standards of our own country, when their situations are vastly different.

The first time I met Mohammad Amir was when he was 16 years old, coming to an under-19s camp. He comes from a small village near the Swat valley and was delayed by three hours because the Taliban had closed the highway. That doesn't happen in this country. One thing that struck me about Amir was his constant smile, his zest for the game. That has not changed.

I will never condone any form of fixing, but we should consider that a cricketer might not be thinking of personal gain but of getting money to buy a generator for his village because they don't have electricity.

I had a lot to do with Mohammad Asif and he was always missing training sessions to look after his sick mother. He has spent a lot of his money on looking after his family.

If Salman Butt is involved in any match-fixing, I would be absolutely stunned. He is a very intelligent, polite guy and has done well since taking over the team.

I cannot remember one incident in my time as coach of Pakistan that aroused suspicion of a fix.

I had my eye on it when Asif and Shoaib Akhtar had come back from their nandrolone bans. We had a meeting about match-fixing and spot-fixing.

We were pretty consistent during my tenure. The players knew there were financial rewards for performing well.

My first reaction to this latest news was sadness. These are people I know, people I call friends. This will probably be the end of some careers.

I don't think Pakistan should be banished. We have seen them survive some incredible on- and off-field turmoil. You shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

But I will say that the present Pakistan administration cannot escape some of the blame for this. What they need right now is positive leadership and they don't have it. The Pakistan Cricket Board chairman, Ijaz Butt, is not a leader, he should not have the job.

When I was there, the board did not have people with vested interests, they were business people who treated people fairly. The first-class players were looked after and paid well and it made a difference.

It would be the greatest tragedy if a young man like Aamer has been led astray.


Source
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Quite an emotional and great piece from Lawson. Yeah people here tend to make wholesale statements without even attempting to gain an understanding of the psyche and the culture from where these players are coming. It may sound ridiculous for someone, like resorting to such stuff and justifying it as for not own good, but for the community. But fact of the matter is that, these guys have seen abject poverty, hardships and survived many a hungry stomach nights. It's like the story of the soldier who said he'd be loyal to death for the Company that pays him better. There really isn't bad or good in situations like these, just different point of views.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
2) Bandying about 'country bans' and or 'life bans' is just plain nonsense for me.
I seem to remember England cricket captains being filmed cheating (rubbing dirt on the ball) and no real action being taken. I don't condone cheating in any form, but let's face it spread betting is an incitement to cheating.
In rugby you could bet on when the scrum will be and tell the player to fumble (say in the first ten, ) or in football when the throw in will be (and tell them when to kick the ball out.)
People who say 'Its just not cricket' are naive and really this type of thing happens in every sport.
What the **** has Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident got to do with this?
 

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