What would it take to bring cricket back to Pakistan

[Faisal1985]

Very good and informative opinions from SJS and Bagapath.

And i couldn't have agreed more with SJS on his opinion about the CJ and how it is a lost opportunity.

What India has achieved in the recent past is something to take inspiration from for Pakistan. The biggest issue we are facing is corruption from the smallest institute to the biggest names in Pakistani politics. The reason i would prefer Imran over anyone at the moment would be because of his geniune honesty about bringing Pakistan to prosperity. Indeed he has his limitations however, his social work attitude is what sets him apart. Along with Shahbaz Sharif, if there is one guy who right now is capable of leading Pakistan is Shahbaz Sharif. The amount of work he has done in Punjab with respect to social service and helping the poor is remarkable.

I just hope that Pakistani people realize that its about time to put away the differences based on ethnicity and bring those politicians who are more social service oriented and not the same old goons.

From Pak's persepective personally i have always felt that Kashmir issue is more an issue for the militaries of both sides to stay in business. About 70 percent of our income is spent on Military and the remainder trickels down to education, health care, other construction projects...I don't see how it is helping us at all but i do feel that if Pakistan gets into a mutual agreement with India over Kashmir it will be the biggest break through in the subcontinent history post partition.

 

[slugger]

democracy is a bomb blast further away.

Bhutto has a long history of accusing parts of the government, particularly Pakistan's premier military intelligence agencies, of working against her and her party because they oppose her liberal, secular agenda. Bhutto claimed that the ISI has for decades backed militant Islamic groups in Kashmir and in Afghanistan. She was protected by her vehicle and a "human cordon" of supporters who had anticipated suicide attacks and formed a chain around her to prevent potential bombers from getting near her. The total number of injured, according to The New York Times was 134 dead and about 450 injured).

On 27 December 2007, Bhutto was killed while leaving a campaign rally for the PPP at Liaquat National Bagh, where she had given a spirited address to party supporters in the run-up to the January 2008 parliamentary elections. After entering her bulletproof vehicle, Bhutto stood up through its sunroof to wave to the crowds. At this point, a gunman fired shots at her and subsequently explosives were detonated near the vehicle killing approximately 20 people, including Bhutto.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Along with Shahbaz Sharif, if there is one guy who right now is capable of leading Pakistan is Shahbaz Sharif. The amount of work he has done in Punjab with respect to social service and helping the poor is remarkable.

.

Either you are being sarcastic or you are just not familiar with Shahbaz Sharif.

 

[honestbharani]

Either you are being sarcastic or you are just not familiar with Shahbaz Sharif.

who is Shahbaz? Related to Nawaz Sherif?

 

[Jono]

No, but I don't remember the American government seeking hundred of millions of dollars in foreign aid either.

The plight of the Pakistani people affected by the floods is being exacerbated by the fact that they're not getting the help they need from their government, because their government seemingly can't afford it.

Probably looks worse than for the US government when they had the money and still ****ed up the rescue in New Orleans.

 

[Black_Warrior]

who is Shahbaz? Related to Nawaz Sherif?

his brother

 

[Faisal1985]

democracy is a bomb blast further away.

Bhutto has a long history of accusing parts of the government, particularly Pakistan's premier military intelligence agencies, of working against her and her party because they oppose her liberal, secular agenda. Bhutto claimed that the ISI has for decades backed militant Islamic groups in Kashmir and in Afghanistan. She was protected by her vehicle and a "human cordon" of supporters who had anticipated suicide attacks and formed a chain around her to prevent potential bombers from getting near her. The total number of injured, according to The New York Times was 134 dead and about 450 injured).

On 27 December 2007, Bhutto was killed while leaving a campaign rally for the PPP at Liaquat National Bagh, where she had given a spirited address to party supporters in the run-up to the January 2008 parliamentary elections. After entering her bulletproof vehicle, Bhutto stood up through its sunroof to wave to the crowds. At this point, a gunman fired shots at her and subsequently explosives were detonated near the vehicle killing approximately 20 people, including Bhutto.

And your point is? In which country hasn't there been an assassination of a leader? Pak Military and ISI always had links with Taliban and Mujahideen in Kashmir and Afghanistan. U.S. supported the Taliban through Pakistan against Soviets right up until its collapse and then left it alone and now came back to fight them as they allegedly brought down the WTC's. Pakistan Military always has influence in Kashmir for other reasons which i don't want to get into in this thread. They still have heavy influence there.......so i don't understand what your point is by this? Do other nations not have such influences in regions of stretigic interest?

 

[Jamee999]

A whole lot more than it would have done this time yesterday.

 

[silentstriker]

Haha yea, if I was a player, I'd would opt out against all Pakistan matches if my board let me. Just in case...I wouldn't want something like this to be associated in the games I play.

 

[slugger]

my point is that it seems no matter what people try to do to move pakistan forward to a more stable and embracing country their lives are cut short ie Bhutto, if you want to make this a safe place not only for cricket teams to tour but also their fans, you have to realise that the problems are never going to go away, there is an under belly to this problem that is bigger than any sport. if you want to talk about cricket 101 show me a country where the idea of womans cricket team was faced the with court cases and death threats. this is not equality and its not acceptable and is not safe for even your own people so you can not possibly believe an outsider would feel safe.

 

[Faisal1985]

my point is that it seems no matter what people try to do to move pakistan forward to a more stable and embracing country their lives are cut short ie Bhutto, if you want to make this a safe place not only for cricket teams to tour but also their fans, you have to realise that the problems are never going to go away, there is an under belly to this problem that is bigger than any sport. if you want to talk about cricket 101 show me a country where the idea of womans cricket team was faced the with court cases and death threats. this is not equality and its not acceptable and is not safe for even your own people so you can not possibly believe an outsider would feel safe.

Again. You are jumping from politics to women's rights as reasons. To me security is the prime reason for not touring Pakistan. What does court cases against Women's team have to do with this?

Why are you and many others associating such things as reasons to isolate Pak...? I mean by your logice then...Why would FIFA allow a team like Iran to participate in World Cup? Why would U.S. play cricket with Afghanistan (against women rights, not only Talibans but even the current puppet government of U.S.)? why would any country keep any political or other diplomatic relation with the only absolute monarchy of the world Saudia? Why would Obama go and kiss and bow to the kings who are far ahead in the line of culprits of human rights violations of greatest degrees..Pakistan has maniacs if you didn't notice in the past 10 years called Talibans who would kill anyone, irrespective of his religion, ethnicity or gender. They have blown up markets, Mosques, homes, schools, hospitals, hotels...and you are concerned about death threats to a woman's cricket team? dude....you need an extreme overhauling of your general knowledge and most of all opinion based on proper facts to back up.

As far as security is. Yes i agree at the moment there is no way i would want a team in Pakistan playing international cricket....considering current conditions.

 

[slugger]

Dont start attacking my knowledge of world problems believe me i'm restraining myself , because this is a cricket forum, that is why I used pakistan female CRICKET team as my evidence of poor injustice, I'm 100% positive the NZ womans cricket team did not have to go court to plea their case and they diffently did not recieve DEATH THREATS.

Sure there is big security issues but i was pointing out underlining problems that even the best security is not going to resolve. Bhutto security was of high quality yet it still failed to keep her from being killed.

 

[Faisal1985]

Dont start attacking my knowledge of world problems believe me i'm restraining myself , because this is a cricket forum, that is why I used pakistan female CRICKET team as my evidence of poor injustice, I'm 100% positive the NZ womans cricket team did not have to go court to plea their case and they diffently did not recieve DEATH THREATS.

Sure there is big security issues but i was pointing out underlining problems that even the best security is not going to resolve. Bhutto security was of high quality yet it still failed to keep her from being killed.

Your points are irrelevant to the problem...or the solution for that matter.

 

[bagapath]

Pak Military and ISI always had links with Taliban and Mujahideen in Kashmir and Afghanistan.

this interpretation of terrorism in kashmir is part of the problem.

any state that encourages non state actors to commit terror acts in other countries is bound to weaken its own security as the non state actors will remain non state actors always and will not listen when they are told to stop. India - LTTE - Rajiv Gandhi's assassination is a good example. similarly pakistan ISI 's association with the terror groups in kashmir and taliban is the reason for its own security issues. Pak should stop encouraging terrorism in other countries if it wants to protect its own people. as long as these illegitimate intrusions are justified by false propaganda and brain washing - like calling them freedom fighters, for example, the common man in pakistan will continue to suffer.

the difference between US and Pakistan on this front is that US has always used other countries to train non state actors so that within its boundaries terror training never takes place. OTOH, pakistan is training these terror groups on its soil and when they are let loose their indoctrination proves to be poisonous for themselves at times. the country is sliding backwards into medieval times.

i am visiting lahore later this year, for a family function. hopefully i will be able to come back with good memories of the land i have always wanted to visit and the people i have always liked.

 

[slugger]

Your points are irrelevant to the problem...or the solution for that matter.

oh no they're not.... and when you get your head out the sand you will realise this.

 

[Black_Warrior]

We can discuss and analyse and delve deeper into these problems for pages after pages on this thread and nothing will come out of it. This is why I was not in favour of this thread from the very beginning. Because the reason there is no cricket in Pakistan is political and what would bring cricket back to Pakistan is also political. And this forum is so place to debate about politics.

Every country in this world, especially those in the third world are riddled with problems, political problems. India itself is grappling with maoist insurgency.
Now it is a lot easier to sit on a couch and point fingers and say
1) this sucks
2) that sucks
3) and that one over there sucks
and these are the root causes and I would never go there

Fine. You don't have to go there.

I understand that the problems in Pakistan or anywhere in the world will not go away overnight nor will it go away just from pointing fingers. There are people in Pakistan who care much more than all of us here and are devoted to making things better even if you don't see their faces.

There is no further point to this topic instead. Ultimately people are going to point fingers and from what I have read, there is a lot of genuine ignorance about political realities of Pakistan here. Now if I try to point that out, an argument will ensue and people generally do not like being corrected and this forum particularly cricket chat is no place to debate about politics.

To sum up, what would bring cricket back to Pakistan is a political solution and that is beyond the scope of this forum. So lets leave it at that and move on

 

[bagapath]

To sum up, what would bring cricket back to Pakistan is a political solution and that is beyond the scope of this forum. So lets leave it at that and move on

I can only hope that political solution is not beyond the scope of people in Pakistan either.

Actually, I think this thread has been pretty good so far.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I can only hope that political solution is not beyond the scope of people in Pakistan either.

Actually, I think this thread has been pretty good so far.

No sir its not beyond the scope of the people..
But what I am saying is, the problems that have been brought up ranging from terrorism to women's rights to corruption etc etc..Is this really a place to discuss all that in detail?

More vidoes here, including one of a few Pakistani players (??) taking the jacket with the cash.

Wrong topic

 

[bagapath]

No sir its not beyond the scope of the people..
But what I am saying is, the problems that have been brought up ranging from terrorism to women's rights to corruption etc etc..Is this really a place to discuss all that in detail?

terrorism has affected international cricket in pakistan. so it is not irrelevant to discuss that in this forum, in my opinion.

Black_ Warrior! I hope you dont find any of what I have written offensive. If you find them irrelevant I am willing to ignore that complaint and keep writing on what I think are relevant to the issue on hand - the return of international cricket to Pakistan. But I don't mean to offend you, Faisal or other Pakistanis at any point. If you notice, I was sticking to Pakistan improving its international image for the first few posts until the elephant could not be ignored beyond a point.

 

[slugger]

ditto