ITM Cup 2010

[Somerset]

Thats a huge upset IMO as I didn't really rate this year's Tasman side, yet they've now posted wins over two of the teams I thought would be certainties for the top seven and strong contenders for the semi finals. I must note that Tasman seem to have a habit of surprising the larger unions, remembering that they defeated Auckland last year.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Tasman particularly enjoy playing Waikato as I recall. A last minute drop kick win 2 seasons ago?

I thought this season's Tasman had a good pack, but extremely weak backline. Goodman was a big loss, but Wheeler and the Marshalls have been much better than expected.

Missed today's game though. Where did the Makos win it?

 

[Somerset]

Tasman particularly enjoy playing Waikato as I recall. A last minute drop kick win 2 seasons ago?

I thought this season's Tasman had a good pack, but extremely weak backline. Goodman was a big loss, but Wheeler and the Marshalls have been much better than expected.

Missed today's game though. Where did the Makos win it?

Yes indeed, that dropkick after 80 minutes two years at Waikato Stadium slipped my mind. Regarding the Tasman side this year, I didn't even rate their forwards after they lost players like Perrin, Ainsley, Bright, etc in the off-season. Admittedly Jack was a key gain but I couldn't see them finishing inside the top 10 - but besides an average showing against the Naki they've clearly proven me wrong with some very solid performances.

 

[Hurricane]

Missed today's game though. Where did the Makos win it?

Leadership of Chris Jack - and a never say die attitude. And tackling away. They scored points that were fortunate in the first half. Getting the bounce of the ball on their side.
But if Canterbury had've been more skilled they would have stopped those tries. As good as Maitland is on attack he is average on D at fullback and a try resulted from his mediocre handling of a kick through. Canterbury would be better served with Steven Brett at fullback. And Maitland on the wing. And some other player at 12.

Canterbury lost this game more than Tasman winning it. I don't know why Andy Ellis didn't start the game he is a fine fine half back and scored a try when he came on. If they kept him on the reserve bench to give experience to a younger halfback then they deserve the loss as the young bloke belonged in a club rugby game. My specific complaint about him is that the ball kept going free at the back of the ruck and he was nowhere to be seen to clean it up. And Canterbury was losing control of possession. When Ellis came on things settled down.

Edit: The cute moment of the game was when the guy on PA started a Makos chant with the crowd with 1 minute left in the game. Would never happen in a big city.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I don't know why Andy Ellis didn't start the game he is a fine fine half back and scored a try when he came on. If they kept him on the reserve bench to give experience to a younger halfback then they deserve the loss as the young bloke belonged in a club rugby game.

Not the first time that Ellis has been on the bench this season? Didn't he come on in the 2nd half vs. Manawatu when Cantabs were down? The Turbos lost that one when they subbed the always excellent Shannon Paku though.

There's been some average half-backs on show this season. Wellington's (3rd choice after Weepu and Alby) was particularly atrocious; seemingly only adept at conceding territory.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Edit: The cute moment of the game was when the guy on PA started a Makos chant with the crowd with 1 minute left in the game. Would never happen in a big city.

Would never happen in Auckland or Wellington; but particularly Auckland.

I've been at Waikato Stadium and the crowd have gone wild in the last five (Waikato/Taranaki 2 years ago when it was 45 - 41 ish).

 

[Hurricane]

Notes for re-format of tournament from 2011

The new competition format from 2011 will see 14 teams split into two divisions of seven teams based on their on-field finishing positions in 2010. The top seven teams will form the Premiership and the bottom seven the Championship. Teams will play all other teams in their division plus four other teams from the other division (there will be an innovative new process for teams to select their cross-division opponents with the detail to be finalised in the first quarter next year). All matches will carry full competition points. The winner of the Championship will receive automatic promotion to the Premiership replacing the 7th placed team in the Premiership which will be relegated to the Championship.

In 2011, due to New Zealand hosting RWC 2011, the competition window will be restricted to eight weeks. As a result, in 2011 only, there will be three mid-week matches and no semi-finals.

From 2012 the competition will commence two weeks after the conclusion of the new expanded Super Rugby in mid-August and be played over 12 weeks. This will see the introduction of semi-finals and no mid week matches.

From the AB.com website. Was wondering exactly how it was going to work. Now that I know there is interdivisional play it doesn't seem so bad to me.

The whole thing will fall apart if the best players from the lower division get recruited by the top teams. So I hope that doesn't happen.

BTW watching the Counties game and Tana while he may not be as athletic as Fruean doesn't make any mistakes and seems very professional.

 

[Somerset]

From the AB.com website. Was wondering exactly how it was going to work. Now that I know there is interdivisional play it doesn't seem so bad to me.

The whole thing will fall apart if the best players from the lower division get recruited by the top teams. So I hope that doesn't happen.

BTW watching the Counties game and Tana while he may not be as athletic as Fruean doesn't make any mistakes and seems very professional.

The clause that "teams will play all other teams in their division plus four other teams from the other division" was why I commented earlier in the topic that the likes of Cruden will still have the opportunity to play against the major sides. As I also mentioned earlier, I think its a good format that rewards teams who perform well (by placing them in the top division) yet still giving sides the opportunity to move in and out of divisions.

Tana's been sensational in the three matches hes played - Fruean offers a more dynamic style but Tana's leadership, constant willingness to take the ball into tackle and defence are so crucial; plus his ability to offload the ball suits Counties' style perfectly. Entertaining match between Counties and Manawatu, and so good to see Counties playing with confidence this year. They scored some great tries, though admittedly through some average defence. Strange refereeing effort from Australian Nathan Pierce, he called just nine penalties in the match and missed some blatant forward passes and knock-ons.

 

[Hurricane]

Hi Somerset,

I did remember your comments but didn't know the details.

Are you watching the Wellington Waikato game?

If Waikato win this game it will be through their coaches. Waikato need to stop kicking possession to Wellington it is resulting in the sensational wings of Wellington making terrific runs and we can't stop them. We need the ball in hand.

We also need to not make any mistakes. Incorrect line out throws, dropped balls etc...

But reckon this is up to the coaches to figure out how Waikato should adjust. The score could easily be 30 - 9. We are lucky the Wellington fly half went for those drop goals.

Edit: The game is over now - the coaches did not see the same things I saw and we continued to do aimless kicks which Wellington scored from.
Waikato's number 12 is a poor player. He needs to be coming off the bench and not starting the game - we miss Callum Bruce at number 12 with Stephen Donald at number 10 to direct play. When Donald returns to the fray I will start following Waikato again. Renata's kicking game is awful and youthful
Finally our forwards got tired in the second half and we couldn't secure our own ball at the breakdown.
I won't even mention our poor hands and dropped passes - at times we looked like the key stone cops.

Well done Wellington.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Now that I know there is interdivisional play it doesn't seem so bad to me.

Would kinda hope a Championship team could make the play-offs, too, but seems not. (Some AFL-type system with the top two teams getting byes, 3-5 + Championship winner plays off in the QFs)

 

[Somerset]

Are you watching the Wellington Waikato game?

I think the 12 point margin of victory was deserved, Wellington were clearly the better side although Waikato certainly pushed them close. Had Mikkelson placed his foot an inch the other side of the sideline, then who knows what might've happened in the final 10 minutes...

Lealiifano at 12 had an average game, I'd agree - from what I can recall he started at 10 for the Brumbies and that seemed to suit him, so whether 12 is his best position is perhaps a discussion point. Renata was also pretty poor like he was in the first few weeks. Just like when the BOP get Delany back, Donald should be a huge boost for Waikato - hes proven to be a great player at domestic level.

 

[Hurricane]

Would kinda hope a Championship team could make the play-offs, too, but seems not. (Some AFL-type system with the top two teams getting byes, 3-5 + Championship winner plays off in the QFs)

That would be awesome. But would add an extra week to the playoffs. I think they only have two weeks to work with for the playoffs.

I am sure if they used some mid week games they could find a way to make your idea work however.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

we miss Callum Bruce...

I never thought I'd hear a Waikato fan say this!!

 

[Hurricane]

I never thought I'd hear a Waikato fan say this!!

Didn't follow him last season so if he had some shockers I didn't see them. Just going from longer term memory here.

Next week I have to choose between the high flying counties manukau and loyalty. Tough call.

 

[Somerset]

Round Four Results:
BoyBrumby 6
Samuel_Vimes 6
Somerset 6
Voltman 6
HeathDavisSpeed 5
Hurricane 5
Ripper868 4

Standings after Round Four:
Samuel_Vimes 19
Somerset 19
BoyBrumby 17
HeathDavisSpeed 17
Hurricane 16
Voltman 15
Ripper868 14

Round Five ITM Cup Fixtures:
Otago vs Taranaki
Tasman vs Southland
Waikato vs Counties Manukau
Wellington vs Northland
Canterbury vs Auckland
Manawatu vs Hawkes Bay
Bay of Plenty vs North Harbour

Round One Heartland Championship Fixtures:
King Country (Lochore SF) vs Horowhenua Kapiti (Meads 5th)
Wanganui (Meads Winner) vs South Canterbury (Meads SF)
Thames Valley (Lochore 6th) vs West Coast (Lochore Runner-up)
East Coast (Lochore 5th) vs North Otago (Lochore Winner)
Buller (Lochore SF) vs Wairarapa Bush (Meads 6th)
Mid Canterbury (Meads Runner-up) vs Poverty Bay (Meads SF)
(last year's placings in brackets; remember that the Meads Cup is the higher Heartland division)

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Taranaki
Tasman
Waikato
Wellington
Canterbury
Hawke's Bay
BOP

 

[Magrat Garlick]

King Country
W(h)anganui
West Coast
North Otago
Buller
Mid Canterbury

 

[Hurricane]

Round Five ITM Cup Fixtures:
Otago vs Taranaki
Tasman vs Southland
Waikato vs Counties Manukau
Wellington vs Northland
Canterbury vs Auckland
Manawatu vs Hawkes Bay
Bay of Plenty vs North Harbour

Are we picking the Heartland games as well for equal points? Or is that counted separately.

Round One Heartland Championship Fixtures:
King Country (Lochore SF) vs Horowhenua Kapiti (Meads 5th)
Wanganui (Meads Winner) vs South Canterbury (Meads SF)
Thames Valley (Lochore 6th) vs West Coast (Lochore Runner-up)
East Coast (Lochore 5th) vs North Otago (Lochore Winner)
Buller (Lochore SF) vs Wairarapa Bush (Meads 6th)
Mid Canterbury (Meads Runner-up) vs Poverty Bay (Meads SF)

 

[Somerset]

Are we picking the Heartland games as well for equal points? Or is that counted separately.

In the past we've included the Heartland games with the overall standings so unless theres objections to that we'll do the same this year.

 

[Smudge]

Round Five ITM Cup Fixtures:
Otago vs Taranaki
Tasman vs Southland
Waikato vs Counties Manukau
Wellington vs Northland
Canterbury vs Auckland
Manawatu vs Hawkes Bay
Bay of Plenty vs North Harbour

Round One Heartland Championship Fixtures:
King Country vs Horowhenua Kapiti
Wanganui vs South Canterbury
Thames Valley vs West Coast
East Coast vs North Otago
Buller vs Wairarapa Bush
Mid Canterbury vs Poverty Bay