Ponting or Murali: Who is the greater test cricketer?

[vcs]

Nothing against you, vcs.

But there is an overwhelming number of people who would keep Bradman in their all-time XI because 'he's a given' (sometimes Sobers too in spite of not seeing him play) and would refuse to rate other players from the yesteryears citing the reason that they haven't seen them. Isn't it a case of double standards? I don't mean to be rude, just a genuine question.

I mean saying that you can't rate players you haven't watched is perfectly acceptable, given that always remains the case.

Hmm.. that's a good question, thanks for clarifying. I think in case of Bradman, it's the legend and the statistical superiority being impossible to ignore... same goes for Sobers to a lesser extent, I guess.

Personally, I find picking all-time XIs an utterly impossible and unrewarding task because there are so many great cricketers you have to leave out..

 

[GotSpin]

Possibly because Bradman was SO much ahead but the gap is not so big between a O'Reilly and a Warne for instance..

this

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, if you talk about cricket as a whole game; batting, bowling, fielding, etc. Ponting is more talented across those facets.

Yes, this is the thinking I had - also regarding his "legacy" as a cricketer - when I voted Ricky above Murali in the greatest cricketers post 1980s thread.

If you're voting for Murali because you think bowlers are more important that batsman, fair enough, to an extent. But WRT to captaincy and fielding, it's not even a discussion, Ricky is a mile ahead.

If those are the reasons against voting for Ponting, then this thread should be renamed asking if a great bowler is a greater test cricketer than a great batsman.

Without starting a flame-war, I really wonder just how many of the same people would be voting for Murali if instead of Ponting it was Sachin's name in the poll. Ricky, for what I have experienced on CW, really seems to not get the credit he deserves for his lack of popularity.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

If you are talking legacies then it's Murali quite easily.As for who contributes more to the team,all 3 facets combined,that's arguable,but then by Ikki's own admission elsewhere,that would make Cairns>McGrath.But talking of legacies,greatness,opinions of peers/experts etc,it's Murali by 20 miles.

 

[Ikki]

Not really, TBH. I used a combination in my own rankings. If you take legacy: Ponting is in the top handful of batsmen ever. Murali is the same for bowlers, but he gets more attention, like Warne, for being a spinner. As a fielder, Ponting is one of the greatest all-round fielders of all-time. Murali can't compare. As a captain and a leader, Ponting is one of the most successful captains of all-time. Again, Murali cannot compare. These are all the main facets a cricketer can have. And Ponting is in the top handful of everything apart from bowling. Murali is renown solely for his bowling.

Personally, I just don't see it logical to vote for Murali over Ponting. Over Tendulkar or Lara, sure because the other facets to their game really don't add to their legacy at all so it's their batting vs his bowling. With Ponting or someone like Viv, it's a different matter.

 

[honestbharani]

Not really, TBH. I used a combination in my own rankings. If you take legacy: Ponting is in the top handful of batsmen ever. Murali is the same for bowlers, but he gets more attention, like Warne, for being a spinner. As a fielder, Ponting is one of the greatest all-round fielders of all-time. Murali can't compare. As a captain and a leader, Ponting is one of the most successful captains of all-time. Again, Murali cannot compare. These are all the main facets a cricketer can have. And Ponting is in the top handful of everything apart from bowling. Murali is renown solely for his bowling.

Personally, I just don't see it logical to vote for Murali over Ponting. Over Tendulkar or Lara, sure because the other facets to their game really don't add to their legacy at all so it's their batting vs his bowling. With Ponting or someone like Viv, it's a different matter.

Well, as a fielder, maybe.. But I won't use that as a clincher in any way, coz Murali was a good fielder in his own right at his best... And one of the best in SL..


And we have talked ad nauseum about Ponting's captaincy. It is fair enough if you think the stats of it are enough to place him at that level. But most others don't, I guess, here... So it is obvious why he is leading the poll with such a margin right now..

 

[weldone]

Without starting a flame-war, I really wonder just how many of the same people would be voting for Murali if instead of Ponting it was Sachin's name in the poll. Ricky, for what I have experienced on CW, really seems to not get the credit he deserves for his lack of popularity.

I would have voted for Murali over Sachin at this stage, probably.

I, for one, consider Ricky Ponting the best batsman to play for Australia after Steve Waugh retired, a great cricketer in the truest sense....

 

[Matt79]

I would have voted for Murali over Tendulkar.

 

[honestbharani]

I would have voted for Murali over Tendulkar.

I would vote Murali over Sachin/Lara/Ponting any day.

 

[Ikki]

How about this; how many think Ponting is a greater cricketer than Sachin/Lara?

 

[weldone]

By the way, I want to differ with some of the people here who have said that Ponting's captaincy should work as a negative factor for him. He would get you the desired result most of the times if he's given an excellent team. Can't say the same about most of the test players...no satire intended...

He might not be among the best test captains Australia has ever had; but his captaincy should add a few points to his credibility as a cricketer, if anything.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

...........

 

[honestbharani]

How about this; how many think Ponting is a greater cricketer than Sachin/Lara?

I don't.. I think Sachin/Lara were just the same as Ponting as captains and I think they were both better batsmen and the difference in their fielding is not enough to put Ponting ahead for me. Close? Yes. But still, Sachin/Lara over Ponting for me.

 

[Matt79]

Flipperty - You cannot seriously think that's an ok way to post after the two warnings AndyC has given you already this evening. I've deleted it - no more posts along those lines.

 

[vic_orthdox]

How about this; how many think Ponting is a greater cricketer than Sachin/Lara?

Please, a story for another thread.

 

[Migara]

If we assume that batsmen are one and half times numerous as bowlers (7:4 actually), where would Ponting and Murali stand?

Murali, easily in the top five if not the first (among Barnes, Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath and few others). Is Ponting in top 8 best ever batsmen? Is he better than Bradman, Headly, Pollock, Barrington, Hutton, Hammond, Sobers, SRT, Lara or Viv? Where Murali stands among all time bowlers and where Ponting will stand among all time bastmen will give the answer easily. Ponting has quite a number of comparables in the cricket history. But Murali has precious few.

Murali takes my vote due to that.

 

[Sir Alex]

Murali is the better cricketer.

 

[Ikki]

I don't.. I think Sachin/Lara were just the same as Ponting as captains and I think they were both better batsmen and the difference in their fielding is not enough to put Ponting ahead for me. Close? Yes. But still, Sachin/Lara over Ponting for me.

Come on mate, they're practically dead-even as batsmen. That argument, if it is being argued by reasonable people, can go either way. But what will never go either way is their fielding. He is a class above them. I'll leave the captaining alone since we've already discussed it enough.

 

[Shri]

Disclaimer: The following post may make little to no sense. Readers' discretion is advised.

Not convinced about the fielding thing. Ponting is a versatile fielder who can pretty much field anywhere in the field with great skill. Sachin and Lara on the other hand exclusively fielded in the slips for the majority of their careers. Sachin for example fields in the mid off or mid on area when he s not in slips helping bowlers all the time. He has never been put in different positions by captains and he has neither had a chance to succeed nor fail in positions where Ponting has been successful. Ponting being the captain of his side also gives him the liberty to place himself at any position giving him an unfair advantage over Lara and Sachin as far as fielding is concerned.

 

[Ikki]

I think the argument about "not getting the chance to do what X did" is pretty weak. There are very few cricketers who are as good as Ponting in the field. What about Sachin would suggest he could be that good? Especially since Indian fielders are notoriously poor.