Greatest cricketers since 1980

[Streetwise]

fully agree with all of the above. but where he loses out to lara and sachin as an all-time great is in his batsmanship alone. fans and critics and cricketers all over the world rank him below lara and sachin - even shane warne did that - because though ricky is a cracking batsman, he still doesnt possess the timeless beauty of sachin's batting or lara's magic. it was a tough call for me but ultimately that is what made me put him in level 2.

But on timeless beauty of batting Sachin and Larea are nowhere near M Waugh or Gower though are they.

Personally I like the brute force of Ponting or Richards so on that score Ponting is on a level higher than Lara and Sachin.

 

[four_or_six]

Greatest Test Captains of the Last 30 years

Level 1

Allan Border
Imran Khan
Clive Lloyd
Mark Taylor
Steve Waugh

Level 2

Ricky Ponting
Viv Richards
Sourav Ganguly
Stephen Fleming
Arjuna Ranatunga
Rahul Dravid
Hansie Cronje (when he didnt take leather jacket from bookies)

Level 3

Graeme Smith
Dhoni (can go up top level 2 after one more season)
Sean Pollock
Sanath Jayasuriya
Azharuddin (when he didnt take money from bookies)
Michael Vaughan
Nasser Hussein

I would love to bump Nasser up to Level 2, just because I see him as the major force in turning us into the competitive side we became.

 

[honestbharani]

Err again NO. Steve Waugh barely won the WC. It is Ponting that made the ODI side so strong.

Taylor CREATED the strong test side and Waugh made them unbeatable.. Waugh created the "world's best" ODI side, Ponting made them unbeatable, through no real captaincy gem of his but by the fact that the players peaked around that time... Waugh benefitted from the same too, but there were still times when he showed he is a good captain, like dropping Warne in the Windies etc... I am sorry, I can see others think it is a great thing to unite a side, but I think it is more difficult to achieve in a team like Windies or Pakistan but with Australia, the team ethos is already there and it is basically the continuation of good work beginning with the likes of Border... And I am bloody sure he is the most defensive Aussie captain I have seen...

 

[honestbharani]

I think you can't just dismiss Ponting's captaincy skills because he had a great team. He did and excellent job of combining a number of great players into a great team - it's not always the case that that happens. I think he must have had very good man management skills imo.

sure.. but I think he also benefits from the team culture that Australia generally seem to have.. The team > individuals seems to be built in for them than say for a Windies or Pakistan or India team...

 

[Streetwise]

yeah.. and while explaining the importance, you expected some kind of a critique of his captaincy?????

I didnt expect anything about Ponting, Langer was talking about his role as temporary coach and he remarked on the work that Ponting was doing with the new members of the squad. The interview and questions were not about Ponting but about the structure and development of the squad. Langer spoke about the good and bad things in Australian cricket. I dont see Justin as the type to BS for the sake of it. Perhaps you just dont trust anyone or anything that could paint Ponting in a good light.

 

[kingkallis]

Greatest Test Captains of the Last 30 years

Level 1

Allan Border
Imran Khan
Clive Lloyd
Mark Taylor
Steve Waugh

Level 2

Ricky Ponting
Viv Richards
Sourav Ganguly
Stephen Fleming
Arjuna Ranatunga
Rahul Dravid
Hansie Cronje (when he didnt take leather jacket from bookies)

Level 3

Graeme Smith
Dhoni (can go up top level 2 after one more season)
Sean Pollock
Sanath Jayasuriya
Azharuddin (when he didnt take money from bookies)
Michael Vaughan
Nasser Hussein

Shaun Pollock you mean...

 

[kingkallis]

I would love to bump Nasser up to Level 2, just because I see him as the major force in turning us into the competitive side we became.

+1

He was a better captain than Dravid for sure...

 

[honestbharani]

So Ponting is now captain of the top ODI team in the world and how many of his players played under Waugh.

Who made this new team the top team in the world.

The players? Put it this way, I felt Waugh's captaincy made a bigger difference to the side he led (and I am talking ODIs in RSA in 97 here, when I felt clearly that SA had the better personnel for ODIs and still were trailing something like 2-4 to Australia) than Ponting's has ever done. I am not saying he is a poor captain, I am just saying he is not as great as the record shows him to be. That is all down to the great team he has had. And FTR, I don't think Sachin and Lara exactly sucked as captains either and it was just that their team was so bad that they looked that poor.

 

[GotSpin]

Taylor CREATED the strong test side and Waugh made them unbeatable.. Waugh created the "world's best" ODI side, Ponting made them unbeatable, through no real captaincy gem of his but by the fact that the players peaked around that time... Waugh benefitted from the same too, but there were still times when he showed he is a good captain, like dropping Warne in the Windies etc... I am sorry, I can see others think it is a great thing to unite a side, but I think it is more difficult to achieve in a team like Windies or Pakistan but with Australia, the team ethos is already there and it is basically the continuation of good work beginning with the likes of Border... And I am bloody sure he is the most defensive Aussie captain I have seen...

From what I can recall Australia's ODI record was fairly ordinary in the early 00s and it wasn't until Ponting took the reigns that they started really dominating

 

[honestbharani]

From what I can recall Australia's ODI record was fairly ordinary in the early 00s and it wasn't until Ponting took the reigns that they started really dominating

hmmm.. I am not so sure.. I seem to recall them doing well all around but only failed in their home season in that 2002 period after which the Waughs were dropped.. And you gotta realize that Ponting, the batsman, peaked around then too.. That played a not too small a part in Australia becoming as good as they were in ODIs.. Don't think the ODI team exactly peaked under Waugh, though Bevan was at his best around then.. It is difficult to explain, but when I am watching Australia these days, this feeling I get is always that, he is not gonna pull out anything extraordinary as a captain, but with Waugh and maybe a few other captains around the world in my time of watching, I did get that feeling... As I said, for me, Sachin and Lara would have done just as well captaining the sides Ponting did but can't say the same for them with the sides Waugh or Taylor led, as examples from the Aussie side..

 

[TumTum]

From what I can recall Australia's ODI record was fairly ordinary in the early 00s and it wasn't until Ponting took the reigns that they started really dominating

Exactly. The ODI dominance reached a peak at '06.

 

[honestbharani]

I didnt expect anything about Ponting, Langer was talking about his role as temporary coach and he remarked on the work that Ponting was doing with the new members of the squad. The interview and questions were not about Ponting but about the structure and development of the squad. Langer spoke about the good and bad things in Australian cricket. I dont see Justin as the type to BS for the sake of it. Perhaps you just dont trust anyone or anything that could paint Ponting in a good light.

Au contraire.. I have seen enough of Langer's interviews to know that he is never too tired of singing the praises of his buddies and team mates...

 

[Streetwise]

GEATEST TEST CAPTAINS IN THE LAST 30 YEARS

LEVEL 1

Ponting
Border
Lloyd
Ranatunga
Fleming

LEVEL 2

Taylor
Waugh
Smith
Khan
Vaughan

LEVEL 3

Hussian
Ganguly
Richards
Inzi

 

[TumTum]

did u miss "seems to be the current trend" or you just so blinded because I happened to say and perceive something negative about Ponting?

Yes I saw that, and I agree with it. What is BS is that you called Ponting "WAY too negative". He is by far the most positive captain ATM.

 

[Sir Alex]

Ponting? Attacking cap? Nagpur test. India in deep trouble 6 down. Small lead. He bowls parttimers to escape a fine!

Result. Lost test and series.

 

[honestbharani]

Yes I saw that, and I agree with it. What is BS is that you called Ponting "WAY too negative". He is by far the most positive captain ATM.

yeah.. but I am not comparing him to the current captains.. I am rating them overall.. By using that yard stick, I can tell Sachin and Lara too are better captains than the current lot, at least in terms of being attacking...

 

[Sir Alex]

GEATEST TEST CAPTAINS IN THE LAST 30 YEARS

LEVEL 1

Ponting
Border
Lloyd
Ranatunga
Fleming

LEVEL 2

Taylor
Waugh
Smith
Khan
Vaughan

LEVEL 3

Hussian
Ganguly
Richards
Inzi

Ha ha a joke to put Tub in 2nd level.

 

[GotSpin]

hmmm.. I am not so sure.. I seem to recall them doing well all around but only failed in their home season in that 2002 period after which the Waughs were dropped.. And you gotta realize that Ponting, the batsman, peaked around then too.. That played a not too small a part in Australia becoming as good as they were in ODIs.. Don't think the ODI team exactly peaked under Waugh, though Bevan was at his best around then.. It is difficult to explain, but when I am watching Australia these days, this feeling I get is always that, he is not gonna pull out anything extraordinary as a captain, but with Waugh and maybe a few other captains around the world in my time of watching, I did get that feeling... As I said, for me, Sachin and Lara would have done just as well captaining the sides Ponting did but can't say the same for them with the sides Waugh or Taylor led, as examples from the Aussie side..

I was a bit young at the time to make a safe analysis comparing the distinctions between Ponting and Waugh as limited overs captains but I distinctly remember that although reasonably strong, the Australian ODI team was very hit and miss, and certainly was not the dominating, almost sure win, team that it became in the following years under Ponting. Arguably the dominance of the Australian one day team coincided with the peak of Ponting himself, but Australia definitely peaked years after Waugh was dropped

 

[Streetwise]

Au contraire.. I have seen enough of Langer's interviews to know that he is never too tired of singing the praises of his buddies and team mates...

Shocking isnt it that someone would praise Ponting.

 

[weldone]

Greatest Test Captains of the Last 30 years

Level 1

Allan Border
Imran Khan
Clive Lloyd
Mark Taylor
Steve Waugh

Level 2

Ricky Ponting
Viv Richards
Sourav Ganguly
Stephen Fleming
Arjuna Ranatunga
Rahul Dravid
Hansie Cronje (when he didnt take leather jacket from bookies)

Level 3

Graeme Smith
Dhoni (can go up top level 2 after one more season)
Sean Pollock
Sanath Jayasuriya
Azharuddin (when he didnt take money from bookies)
Michael Vaughan
Nasser Hussein

Level 1 is perfect. And Dravid, Jayasuriya and Pollock won't be anywhere close to even level 3. Good list, otherwise. Andy Flower probably deserves a mention.