Auction draft II - ODI voting thread

[marc71178]

After everyone's named their sides, which I list below - which do you think is best?

Himannv
R Kaluwitharana (wk)
S Tendulkar
H Cronje (c)
D Lehmann
A Border
J Rhodes
A Mathews
S al Hasan
A Roberts
J Garner
M Muralitharan

Cevno
S Gavaskar
C Gayle
M Clarke
K Pietersen
G Chappell (c)
M Amarnath
B Haddin (wk)
A Flintoff
A Qadir
T Alderman
M Marshall

G.I.Joe
V Sehwag
S Watson
V Richards (c)
M Waugh
D Jones
R Dravid (wk)
C Harris
C Cairns
A Morkel
B Lee
N Kulusekera

Noble One
G Smith
S Ganguly
H Gibbs
S Fleming (c)
Imran Khan
L Klusener
B McCullum (wk)
Shahid Afridi
I Harvey
N Bracken
S Akhtar

weldone
S Jayasuriya
G Kirsten
Inzamam-Ul-Haq
M Bevan
S Waugh (c)
M Jayawardene
M Boucher (wk)
S Pollock
C Vaas
C Ambrose
A Kumble

honestbharani
S Chanderpaul
D Boon
R Ponting (c)
Javed Miandad
AB de Villiers (wk)
M Hussey
R Hadlee
J Gillespie
Waqar Younis
R Price
C Walsh

Blakus
M Hayden
S Anwar
Z Abbas
J Kallis
MS Dhoni (wk)
C Hooper
G Thorpe
Kapil Dev (c)
A Agarkar
G Swann
A Donald

Pothas
A Gilchrist (wk) (c)
M Trescothick
Mohammad Yousuf
Y Singh
E Morgan
S Tikolo
I Botham
B Hogg
S Bond
M Holding
G McGrath

Pskov
T Dilshan
A Stewart (wk)
B Lara
R Kanhai
C Lloyd (c)
A Symonds
J Kemp
Wasim Akram
Saqlain Mushtaq
B Willis
D Lillee

Somerset
N Knight
M Vaughan
K Sangakkara
A Flower (wk)
VVS Laxman
G Sobers
R Shastri
S Warne (c)
M Ntini
C McDermott
A Mendis

 

[marc71178]

Marc's ratings part 1 - opening batsmen

My first criteria is opening batsmen - I considered the ability of the 2, plus the way I felt the 2 would combine as a pairing. From best to worst I rank them as follows:

Blakus - with Hayden and Anwar as a pairing, both are capable of taking any attack apart, and if they got going together then it beats any other pairing IMO.

Noble One - One half of the pairing in Ganguly is part of arguably the best ODI opening pairing ever but Smith was just a tad below the top notch of ODI openers, hence me placing them 2nd.

Pothas - maybe a bit controversial but Gilchrist was a top opener, and Trescothick a true English great ODI player.

weldone - The modern ODI opening pairing requires 2 aggressors IMO, Kirsten's bat through the innings doesn't for me do that, so even with Jayasuriya with him, I can't put them any higher than the 4th best pairing here.

G.I.Joe - Great though he is in Tests, Sehwag hasn't quite done as well in ODIs for me yet. Watson is also slightly unproven so these 2 are ranked 5th, although come the end of their careers they could easily be right up the top of the tree.

honestbharani - Chanderpaul has a good record as an opener, but didn't do it enough for this pairing to be rated too highly in my eyes, in spite of Boon being more than capable at the other end.

Himannv - The other half of the best pairing of all time is also one of the top batsmen in ODI history. Unfortunately for him he's paired with a rather too much of a hit-or-miss man in Kaluwitherana, hence the lowly ranking here.

Cevno - As with weldone, the lack of a 2nd aggressive opener costs here. Gayle is definitely up to the case, but I'm afraid Gavaskar's over-riding ODI case for me is his 36* in 60 overs.

Pskov - Dilshan's recent improvement in his ODI batting doesn't compensate for the rest of his career when comparing him to some of the other partnerships above, especially when paired with Stewart who was also far from being one of the top echelon of opening batsmen.

Somerset - 2 words tell you why this pairing takes bottom spot for me: Michael Vaughan. Shame for Knight who was clearly a good opener.

To show how tricky it is to split these players, I've made 3 changes in team rankings in the process of writing this and only 3 of the 10 have not been moved!

 

[G.I.Joe]

Would you have thought differently had I opened with Sehwag-M.Waugh instead of Sehwag-Watson, Marc?

 

[marc71178]

Would you have thought differently had I opened with Sehwag-M.Waugh instead of Sehwag-Watson, Marc?

Possibly, but then again I'd have then thought a lot differently in my next category...

 

[marc71178]

Marc's ratings part 2 - middle order

For middle order I have only counted batsmen between 3 and 6, as other players are covered by other categories later on. From best to worst I rank them as follows:

honestbharani - This line-up just oozes class for me, without an easily identifiable weak link, and topped off with one of the best finishers in history in Hussey.

G.I.Joe - In Viv Richards, we see another of the greatest batsmen in ODI's - personally I rate him higher than anyone else. Waugh was primarily an opener, so that does slightly detract and possibly costs top spot, as Jones and Dravid making up a powerful contingent capable of dealing with almost any conditions.

Blakus - As a player of yesteryear, Zaheer Abbas often slips under the radar when we think of ODI batsmen, but his talent in this group is ideally complemented by the dependable (if a little selfish) Kallis, the incredibly talented and flexible Dhoni and the mercurial Hooper. IMO, the placing of Hooper so low does deduct a bit from the unit, leaving him potentially batting out of position.

Pskov - A big West Indian flavour here sees some fine players topped off by a brutal Andrew Symonds ready to flog the demoralised bowlers. The weakest link is Kanhai, but this is mainly due him being relatively unproven in ODIs.

weldone - Although collectively some good players, I feel a couple of these are out of position to perform to their best and this costs in my final analysis. Obviously Bevan is the star man, but being capable of such wonderful batting at 6, it seems odd to me to put Jayawardene down there and as it's my ranking, that's why they're only 5th.

Somerset - The 2 subcontinental batsmen are amongst the most elegant you can expect to see, and with Andy Flower also in the mix, I only really mark them down because the once-in-a-generation player Sobers was a generation too late for ODIs.

Cevno - This group lacks a natural number 3 for my liking, with Clarke, Pietersen and Chappell all better suited to 4 or 5. Adding in Amarnath doesn't help lift them much higher in my eyes.

Himannv - I found it a tough ask to split this one from Cevno, and it's just the fact that none of these players are really top drawer that tips the balance, even though I feel Rhodes' fielding excellence did mean his batting got somewhat overlooked andthus under-rated.

Pothas - With Morgan still unproven and Tikolo IMO over-rated because of the nation he played for, I had to put these 4 down the list.

Noble One - With Gibbs and Fleming more suited to opening and Imran and Klusener definitely too high up the order for my liking, I had to put these guy's bottom of the pile I'm afraid.

 

[marc71178]

Marc's ratings part 3 - power hitting

As time has gone on, 6-hitting has become more and more important in the context of an ODI. From best to worst I rank them as follows:

Noble One - With Afridi and Klusener in the line-up, no side can counter their power (that's before you look at the likes of Gibbs)

Pothas - From Gilchrist at the top of the order through Yuvraj and Morgan in the middle to Botham, this side would regularly clear the ropes.

G.I.Joe - Viv Richards was the original master blaster and tail-enders like Cairns and Morkel have reputations to envy.

Cevno - Chris Gayle at the top, KP in the middle and big Freddie at the end - throughout the innings there's maximums on show.

Blakus - Hayden and Dhoni are both big hitters when the mood takes them.

Pskov - If Symonds and Kemp got together, there'd be some worried bowlers.

Somerset - Bizarrely, this team contains the 2 batsmen to hit 36 from an over in a first class match - this alone puts them up the order a bit.

weldone - Only Jayasuriya would be backed to regularly clear the ropes, most of the team relying on placement over power.

Himannv - Kaluwitharana could certainly hit them when he got going, but with the exception of Tendulkar at times, his team mates didn't really go aerial that often.

honestbharani - Although many of them have the ability, they don't often show it, so I'm afraid they're bottom.

 

[Blakus]

Just a quick heads up Marc. Me and honestbharani have done a switch. I now have Walsh( who'll bat 11) and he now has Agarkar.

Edit: Also don't forget Kapil Dev in the power hitting stakes

 

[marc71178]

I've done the ratings so it'll all be based on the initial squads for me. Even with Kapil I can't justify a move in my rankings.

 

[Noble One]

Great job with the rankings Marc.

Massive LOL at anyone who votes for their own side. I will post my opinions/vote later.

 

[Cevno]

Great job with the rankings Marc.

Massive LOL at anyone who votes for their own side. I will post my opinions/vote later.

 

[Cevno]

Marc Thanks for organising the draft and doing the ratings. Great Job!!!!!

 

[Cevno]

And Marc despite Gavaskar being remembered for that one innings ,his overall strike rate is pretty similar to Greenidge and Haynes.

Would you say they were slow batsmen too?
And considering the era's i would say that Gavaskar's strike rate was similar too ganguly's. Specially in the 2000's if not in the 90's where strike rates were slower.
I think u are underestimating Gavaskar.Once he took ODI's seriously he was a pretty good player.

And Greg Chappell played almost as many games at no 3 as he did at no 4 and performed better.

 

[marc71178]

Well as Haynes and Greenidge aren't in this, I haven't had to consider them.

Like I said at the start, I've done all these rankings without looking at any stats - it's purely my opinion and my view of the players.

 

[honestbharani]

Well as Haynes and Greenidge aren't in this, I haven't had to consider them.

Like I said at the start, I've done all these rankings without looking at any stats - it's purely my opinion and my view of the players.

And FWIW, I think it is the best way to rank these sides.. Given that we are a forum of reasonably knowledgable watchers and followers of the game... If I don't know much about the player, then I tend to look at the stats.. Else, I like to think I have decent enough idea of their games to judge them comparatively in a team...

 

[marc71178]

Yeah I would say the only 2 out of the 10 squads I needed some refreshing of in terms of ODI careers were Amarnath and Kanhai.

 

[Cevno]

Marc ,why did you not list the reserves too?


If i had known the reserves did not matter at all ,it would have been a completly different game for me.
I could have probably gotten a Tendulkar instead of Amarnath then and had a modi and Utseya as my reserves.

I set out by dividing my budget into 13 players rather than 11.

 

[Noble One]

My brief opinion on each side:

Himannv
Any ODI side that contains Tendulkar in the top order needs to be respected. Otherwise I find the batting relatively tame, no truly great ODI bat in the middle order. Cronje, Lehmann, Border and Rhodes are all relatively similar paced. Not a line-up that will take a side past 300 too often. A couple of young cricketers in the lower order, relatively unproven. Bowling line-up is awesome, plenty of great bowlers mixed with a wealth of cricketers who can bowl 10 tidy overs.

Rating: 7/10

Cevno
Batting not strong enough for my liking. I am not a fan of Clarke, Gavaskar and Amarnath all in the one lineup. Too many slow accumulating types. Not a terrible lineup, just looks out of shape. Bowlers are strong though, and with depth.

Rating: 6/10

GI Joe
How awesome to have Brett Lee batting at number 10. I am a big fan of ODI teams that bat very deep. So many all-time greats in the batting line-up, and nearly every bat capable of a century at greater than a run-a-ball. The only oddity is Dravid at number 6, also doubles up with the gloves which is a massive weakness in my opinion. A solid choice with the gloves, but how would he go keeping to Lee? The bowling is solid, not one of the strongest though. Relying on 10 overs from the likes of Morkel and Kulusekara is a touch risky given the quality of opposition.

Rating: 7.5/10

Noble One
No comment

weldone
Another solid team. But not the strongest. Some impressive bats, but a little one-paced. Jayawardene at 6? I don't find Boucher or Pollock to be the best later-order sloggers either. I think this team will struggle to make big totals on a regular basis. Bowling is very good, Ambrose and Pollock as brilliant as they come. Not the best support in the pace department though, beyond Vass you only have Steve Waugh. At best an average medium-pacer who hardly bowled a ball in the second half of his career.

Rating: 6/10

honestbharani
Some very good top order bats. Can't dispute a team that has Ponting, Miandad, de Villiers and Hussey. Will struggle to have a flying start though with Chanderpaul and Boon, far too similar in style. Also a worry is Hadlee at 7 followed by tail-enders, a definite weakness. The lack of a strong tail made up for with the quality of bowlers on display, I don't know about everyone else but Ray Price looks so odd in that lineup. A definite risk considering the lack of all-rounders, if your frontline 5 don't work then trouble.

Rating: 5.5/10

Blakus
Long depth in batting, although Thorpe is a waste at 7. This team will score big every time, far too much quality. The bowling is decent, but nowhere near the strongest. Only six guys who can bowl is a slight risk, especially with Agarkar always a risk at going at greater than 6 an over.

Rating: 5.5/10

Pothas
Awesome opening combination. A good mix of attacking cricketers with solid run-scorers in the middle order. Tikolo and Morgan maybe a bit out of place considering some of the other combinations of 6 and 7. Enough depth with the batting though, actually great depth. Bowling lineup is the strongest in my opinion. McGrath, Holding and Bond is a fantastic combination. Hogg is a multiple world cup winner and such an underrated cricketer, and then you have Botham.

Rating: 8.5/10

Pskov
Batting lineup is very nice. Symonds and Kemp down the order is very dangerous, although I would prefer Lara as opener over Dilshan, and Symonds possibly one position higher in the order. Frontline bowling attack is top shelf, and enough bowling depth to manage 10 overs out of Symonds, Kemp and Dilshan. Very good team.

Rating: 8.5/10

Somerset
Vaughan such a standout weakness in the lineup. Such a shame, as so many fantastic bats throughout this side. No question marks that Sobers would have made a fantastic ODI cricketer, so no issues with his place. Bowling (spin especially) such a key to this side. Given the right conditions this team would be a nightmare to play. A couple of solid pace-bowlers, but far strong ones available.

Rating: 7.5/10

Overall winner.....Pothas. Bowling lineup seals it. Batting perhaps a star short, but still has the depth to compensate. Sorry if anyone finds my analysis harsh, I just call it as I see it. I have my own preferences to how I like ODI teams to be compiled, and who I consider a good player and not.

 

[marc71178]

Marc ,why did you not list the reserves too?

In my view the idea of a 13 man squad was because there was no strict role selection and also to allow for the muppets that were nominated - with the idea of creating an 11. That's why I'm going through each 11 for my various categories.

 

[Somerset]

Marc ,why did you not list the reserves too?


If i had known the reserves did not matter at all ,it would have been a completly different game for me.
I could have probably gotten a Tendulkar instead of Amarnath then and had a modi and Utseya as my reserves.

I set out by dividing my budget into 13 players rather than 11.

I think we had the same dilmena in another draft as to whether to include the reserve players in accessing the best side. Even though my reserve players, especially Mushtaq Ahmed, are of a much higher quality than several of the other reserves, cough Utseya cough Joginder Sharma, I think its fairer to access the starting XI - in a tournament the reserves would come into play but for simplicity's sake I'd say judging the best XI players from each squad is a fairer exercise.

 

[Somerset]

Somerset
Vaughan such a standout weakness in the lineup. Such a shame, as so many fantastic bats throughout this side. No question marks that Sobers would have made a fantastic ODI cricketer, so no issues with his place. Bowling (spin especially) such a key to this side. Given the right conditions this team would be a nightmare to play. A couple of solid pace-bowlers, but far strong ones available.

Rating: 7.5/10

Fair, and perhaps even a generous analysis of my side. My over-indulgence early in the draft was my main problem; then picking up Vaughan, hardly a player who thrived in ODIs, and waiting until the final three rounds to collect my two opening bowlers.