English national football, where do we go from here?

[Jarquis]

Hell for Germany's first I criciticse my back four for doing it. It was shambolic.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Dont want to get on the bash England whilst they're down band-wagon but it was disappointing to see how undisciplined some of these highly paid professionals were - they made some positional errors that guys on 10% of their salaries would be heavily criticised for committing

Nah, go for it all you like, everyone else in England is. And quite rightly so.

 

[Jarquis]

I hope England have a few friendlies coming up

Next one is August 11th against Hungary.

 

[Goughy]

Eh? Johnson was very good coming forward and he is good on the ball which is crucial at international level. The only error of sorts I remember him making was he didn't take somebody out on the counter attack for Germany's 3rd goal. He also has the pace to get back when he comes forward to help provide width. Compare this to Terry, Carragher and Upson who were ridiculously slow and poor on the ball.

Clearly we are watching different players and for some reason you are comparing one with people who play a different position.

Also, he isnt that fast, he isnt that good on the ball and he doesnt make errors only because he isnt in camera shot of where he should be.

 

[Furball]

His system was certainly flawed against Germany - a rigid 4-4-2 was never the way to go, simply because such a system cannot adequately deal with a player playing in the role Mesut Ozil played. Add in a central striker with movement as good as Klose's, and you have the recipe for a disaster, which is exactly what we saw in the first half.

 

[social]

His system was certainly flawed against Germany - a rigid 4-4-2 was never the way to go, simply because such a system cannot adequately deal with a player playing in the role Mesut Ozil played. Add in a central striker with movement as good as Klose's, and you have the recipe for a disaster, which is exactly what we saw in the first half.

I'll admit that I know sweet f-all about footballing strategy but if these guys are so good, why cant they adapt?

 

[Furball]

I'll admit that I know sweet f-all about footballing strategy but if these guys are so good, why cant they adapt?

Ozil caused problems because he plays between the lines. If Gareth Barry picks him up, it leaves Lampard outnumbered by Khedira and Schweinsteiger, which allows Germany to dominate possession in the middle of the park.

The alternative is for John Terry or Matthew Upson to come forward and pick him up, which happened with comic effect for the 2nd goal. Klose pulled wide, dragging Upson with him, Terry was concerned with Ozil, who'd already missed an absolute sitter by dropping between the midfield and defence, so it left an absolutely massive hole in the centre of defence.

Because Gerrard and Lampard prefer to play on the front foot, they weren't back far enough to deal with the threat, and Germany scored a really well worked, yet simple goal.

That's the tactical explanation. As for why they couldn't adapt - that's not the British way. We're educated to play in a very rigid 4-4-2, where everyone has their set areas and set roles, which goes against the grain of modern football, which demands flexibility, versatility and adaptability. I was reading an article that contained a brilliant quote from Mourinho about British inflexibility, but can't find it, if I can find it I'll stick it in.

edit: found it.

‘I can’t believe that in England they don’t teach young players to be multi-functional. To them it’s just about knowing one position and playing that position. For me, a striker is not a striker. He is somebody who has to move, who has to cross, and who has to do this in a 4-4-2 or in a 3-5-2, each of which is different.’

 

[PhoenixFire]

Rooney does do that TBF.

 

[Furball]

Rooney does do that TBF.

When playing for Manchester United, he doesn't have the players to do it for England.

 

[GIMH]

How do you know his tactics and selection were flawed? His ideas are the only ones put to the test, and you have no grounds on which to assume that your ideas would have worked better. And if he had followed your ideas, England would probably still not have won the World Cup, and everyone who disagreed would have claimed that this was because his tactics and selection was flawed. It's absurd.

I have nowhere suggested that I'd have picked a better team and that my ideas would have led us to the World Cup. Nowhere at all. But I do know Steven Gerrard was played out of his best position, we took a serial injury in defence, he had no idea who his number one was by the time the tournament started, etc etc.

In no way does the fact that I wouldn't have done better make it absurd to criticise him. And just to make a point here - he doesn't have to bring the gold home to avoid criticism from me, and many others. We had the tools to win our group and failed to do so, and as you yourself said, that was the main problem for us in this WC.

The players should of course take a lot of blame but in any environment, business or sport, if a team is not performing to expectations, the blame rests on the manager;s shoulders, as the performance is his job. The only absurd thing here is that you could even try and say it is any other way.

 

[Quaggas]

I think when he starts suggesting spending more on PE in schools he's overprioritising the issue more than a tad. Also vehemently oppose the idea of trading off cup replays for a winter break.

He likely has more sinister plans in mind (). From this Wiki article:

"The Boer War also had another significance. The Army Medical Corps discovered that 40% of men called up for duty were physically unfit to fight. This was the first time in which the government was forced to take notice of how unfit the British Army was. This was one of the prime reasons for the subsequent introduction of compulsory games at British schools.

 

[vcs]

It's weird how so many of England's players can have excellent technique on an individual basis, but as a team they appear inferior technically to even the likes of Algeria, Japan etc. They're so much less than the sum of their parts, and it's been that way for a very long time.

They could also use a Xavi-type player in CM, but there aren't too many of those going around.

 

[vcs]

I get your point, but still, the English squad is much better than what they show internationally. If you were to go through many of the players in Germany they aren't playing for Real Madrid or anything. Even USA or teams like Australia seem to gel together much better than England's players. I can't really understand why this team hasn't been successful and I don't buy for one second that their players (their top ones especially) aren't world-class or good enough.

In Capello they got a good coach but I am not sure he suits England TBF. He is a no-nonsense guy which is good for ego-checking but I am not sure the way his teams play football suit England. I think a coach like Bielsa or Hiddink would do far better with these players.

Summarizes what I feel about England. Germany are everything England dream of being - humble, always eager to improve, and compensate by their team ethic for not having players that are on the same level as the Latin countries in terms of individual skill. Look at the German teams that made the finals of WC 2002 and Euro 2008, and semis at the last WC. Why don't more English players play abroad? It's ridiculous to see promising English players settling for bench roles at Manchester Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool etc. just because "It's the best league in the world", "English teams do so well in Europe" and all that crap. I don't think any coach can do any better with England if this attitude doesn't change.

 

[Cevno]

England Really missed Rio Ferdinand and Owen Hargreaves this world cup.


Hargreaves provides that energy to the midfield in the centre with his all action style that England lacked according to me.He could have provided better delivery on set pieces as well. For me there is no way Gareth Barry is good enough to play at this level.He is a decent backup ,but starter against the likes of germany he ain't not.

Ferdinand was even a bigger miss given King got Injured.Terry may be good at the premiership level ,but against technical players rather than brutes at the international level ,Ferdinand has shown time and again that he stands out and is the best english defender with the ball on the ground rather than in the air.

 

[Cevno]

For me Englands problems started in Central Midfield and ended there.

Both Lampard and Barry are not very good at this level,and got found out. Lampard to excel needs two deeper players than him in the centre to allow him to play on the edge of the box and get his shots away.He cannot fit into a 4-4-2 and i think should ahve been dropped if Capello was so determined to play that formation.
As for Barry ,he simply isn't cut out for the top top level ,but was probably England's best option there considering Hargreaves absence and considering Carrick was coming of a poor season though he has a better technique than barry.

 

[Shri]

How did Beckham do in this tourny then?

 

[TT Boy]

.

 

[Ausage]

He was wonderful.

Apparently the reason behind Rooney's lack of form was that he was caught with a creature of the night prior to the WC and was worried it might come out anytime soon. Also, heard another story that he wanted to have some fun with a maid in the teams hotel but Capello went ape.

Another good story coming out is that the squad is split between camp JT and camp Gerrard. JT doesn't like Gerrard as Gerrard was granted a super injunction covering up for having hows your father with a young girl and she is now up the duff. JT thinks it is double standards. Gerrard and his minions refused to support JT's attempted insurrection.

So sickeningly tabloid.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Summarizes what I feel about England. Germany are everything England dream of being - humble, always eager to improve, and compensate by their team ethic for not having players that are on the same level as the Latin countries in terms of individual skill. Look at the German teams that made the finals of WC 2002 and Euro 2008, and semis at the last WC. Why don't more English players play abroad? It's ridiculous to see promising English players settling for bench roles at Manchester Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool etc. just because "It's the best league in the world", "English teams do so well in Europe" and all that crap. I don't think any coach can do any better with England if this attitude doesn't change.

Number of foreign-based players in the German squad: 0.

I pesonally hope Capello does take a leaf out of the German book in trusting youth more. Aisde from the obvious like Johnson & Walcott we do have some good young players emerging: Rodwell at Everton, Smalling who's just moved to Man U from Fulham &, potentially the best of them all, Connor Wickham at Ipswich. Wickham's still only 17, but he's a beast of a boy already. Strong, great in the air (he's well over 6') and two-footed. He'll play for England one day, so why not now?

 

[vcs]

Number of foreign-based players in the German squad: 0.

True. I don't know how the Germans do it but they always produce a focused side in these major international tournaments. The likes of Podolski, Schweinsteiger, Lahm and Klose seem to save their best for their country. I think they'll beat Argentina fairly comfortably despite having a lot less "talent" on paper.

I pesonally hope Capello does take a leaf out of the German book in trusting youth more. Aisde from the obvious like Johnson & Walcott we do have some good young players emerging: Rodwell at Everton, Smalling who's just moved to Man U from Fulham &, potentially the best of them all, Connor Wickham at Ipswich. Wickham's still only 17, but he's a beast of a boy already. Strong, great in the air (he's well over 6') and two-footed. He'll play for England one day, so why not now?

I don't think Walcott is much of an improvement on Lennon and SWP. England could do with appointing U-20 and U-21 managers who focus on developing good passing skills and coherent patterns of play even if it comes at the cost of immediate results. It should be more of a finishing school for getting into the national team. Letting the U-21 mid-fielders get used to the idea of keeping the ball would be a good start.

Having said all that, England were pretty unlucky with that disallowed goal, and I reckon Germany's performance was the best seen so far in this tournament, so no great shame losing that game. Where England really embarrassed themselves was in the group stages.