Group A - South Africa, Mexico, Uruguay, France

[GIMH]

No maybe I was too harsh, it's definitely as manly as badminton

 

[Furball]

Never a red. Stupid decision.

It's dangerous play, which is a red card offence under the laws of the game.

Everyone has a raised arm when they head it. You need it to get up and protect your space. Now the rules have softened but that is not a red.

Sure most players raise their arms, how many players do you see forearm smashing opponents in the face?

Don't think for a second Gourcouff meant it, but it's still dangerous play.

 

[silentstriker]

Ah, nice explanation that. So in Aussie Rules pain is generally seen as a sign of weakness? Is that a fair interpretation?

Like that in the vast majority of sport. You gain esteem in the eyes of your teammates, opponents, and fans if you can play through pain and not show you're hurt. It's actually a big problem where players sometimes injure themselves even more because they don't admit to the team doctors that they're hurt. That obviously isn't good either, but it's the reason most of my friends think of soccer as a sport for wimps.

 

[Goughy]

It's dangerous play, which is a red card offence under the laws of the game.

Err, no it isnt. Dangerous play is not a red card offense under the laws of the game. In fact dangerous play (as defined by the laws) is about potential for danger rather than contact.

You can be sent off for "Serious foul play" which is when a player uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball but that involves a level of intent that just was not there in that challenge.

 

[Pothas]

Pretty much the same here, tbh. Simulation is still seen as a foreign disease. In fact we actually have quite a few English divers (Cashley, Owen & Rooney all known for going to grass rather easily) but can't honestly recall any of them faking an injury as such.

The corollary of the dim view of footballing thesps is that in England the foul is generally viewed as a lesser sin than than the dive or the sneaky handball. In fact one's lumbering centre half booting the oppo's winger into the advertising hordings is a thing of beauty at times.

There is certainly a cultural difference in England, something which goes way beyond just the issue of diving, as you say a lot of it is hypocritical but yeah I don't think that many English players would go down holding their face like some have in this tournament.

Interestingly in South America showboating and needless tricks when winning a game is seen as a total disgrace, seen as a total lack of respect for the opposition.

 

[Burgey]

Just received my WC daily update emai. Headline.. "Let's all laugh at France.."

So I did.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah. I mean, you'll see the stretcher on the field if someone is in a neck brace or has something broken.

Mind you, people absolutely do go to ground easily to try and draw free kicks, and while it's frowned upon it's part of the game and a number of players are very good at it. But you would never, ever pretend to be hurt when you weren't. More or less what Brumby said about domestic football in England.

Will always remember Creswell I think it was, sitting in the middle of the MCG trying to slap his dislocated knee back into place so he could play on. Epic.

 

[silentstriker]

Or Emmit Smith writhing in pain in the locker room after the game despite playing with a dislocated shoulder - and gaining hard yards leading right with that shoulder into an opponents chest.

 

[silentstriker]

Pretty much the same here, tbh. Simulation is still seen as a foreign disease. In fact we actually have quite a few English divers (Cashley, Owen & Rooney all known for going to grass rather easily) but can't honestly recall any of them faking an injury as such.

The corollary of the dim view of footballing thesps is that in England the foul is generally viewed as a lesser sin than than the dive or the sneaky handball. In fact one's lumbering centre half booting the oppo's winger into the advertising hordings is a thing of beauty at times.

IMO that's the right way to look at it, and it's something I respect greatly. At the very least, I'd much rather have that English outlook than the pansy Italian crap I saw the other day. I can't ever support Italy in any game, against any team, ever.

 

[silentstriker]

Raymond Domenech's Refuses to Shake Opposing Coach's Hand -- Soccer FanHouse

Don't know whose at fault in the whole French fiasco but that's just poor from Domenech.

 

[social]

World Cup 2010: Patrice Evra blasts Raymond Domenech as France depart South Africa - Telegraph

Ha Ha Frogs chartered their plane for leaving SA 3 days ago

That's confidence for you

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah. I mean, you'll see the stretcher on the field if someone is in a neck brace or has something broken.

Mind you, people absolutely do go to ground easily to try and draw free kicks, and while it's frowned upon it's part of the game and a number of players are very good at it. But you would never, ever pretend to be hurt when you weren't. More or less what Brumby said about domestic football in England.

Thought it was hilarious when the stretcher came on in one of the games the other night to carry off a bloke with a bloody nose.

Will retract that comment of course if it turns out he's a hemophiliac.

 

[Matteh]

Err, no it isnt. Dangerous play is not a red card offense under the laws of the game. In fact dangerous play (as defined by the laws) is about potential for danger rather than contact.

You can be sent off for "Serious foul play" which is when a player uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball but that involves a level of intent that just was not there in that challenge.

It was never a red, unless you want players to just jumping up like salmon for the ball there's always going to be times where arms (which you use to jump, take note FIFA) are going to unintentionally hit other people.

 

[GIMH]

Like that in the vast majority of sport. You gain esteem in the eyes of your teammates, opponents, and fans if you can play through pain and not show you're hurt. It's actually a big problem where players sometimes injure themselves even more because they don't admit to the team doctors that they're hurt. That obviously isn't good either, but it's the reason most of my friends think of soccer as a sport for wimps.

Yeah but I bet most of your friends follow a sport where the ****s that play it wear shoulder pads and helmets

Footballers who play through pain do gain respect as well, you know.

 

[Meridio]

The exact same thing that Fuller describes is present in loads of other English sports. Rugby for example is pretty much the ultimate 'hard guy' (for want of a better word) game, where players will pretty much do anything to avoid showing pain. Same occurs in hockey (despite its rep as a girl's game) as well.

NZ hockey goalkeeper played the last 5 minutes of the 1976 Olympic final with a shattered kneecap. According to the fount of all knowledge Wikipedia "After taking a few moments to recover from the blow, he did two full squats, which proved to the New Zealand team management that he was ready to resume playing"

And in my own tough-guy story, I broke my hand in a game a couple of years ago and kept playing for another half hour.

 

[silentstriker]

Footballers who play through pain do gain respect as well, you know.

Good. Seeing the opposite at WC though.

 

[andyc]

NZ hockey goalkeeper played the last 5 minutes of the 1976 Olympic final with a shattered kneecap. According to the fount of all knowledge Wikipedia "After taking a few moments to recover from the blow, he did two full squats, which proved to the New Zealand team management that he was ready to resume playing"

Holy ****.

 

[Goughy]

It was never a red, unless you want players to just jumping up like salmon for the ball there's always going to be times where arms (which you use to jump, take note FIFA) are going to unintentionally hit other people.

Yeah, we are on the same page. In fact, as the law reads, if people view that as a red then so can be a clash of heads that causes injury. Simple thing, that we agree om, is that that was not a red.

 

[Goughy]

Footballers who play through pain do gain respect as well, you know.

I know it was a long time ago but suprised noone mentioned Bert Trautmann. His reputation and respect with fans who never saw him play is based on him playing with a broken neck.

Trautmann entered football folklore with his performance in the 1956 FA (Football Association) Cup Final. With 17 minutes of the match remaining Trautmann suffered a serious injury after diving at the feet of Birmingham City's Peter Murphy. Despite his injury he continued to play, making crucial saves to preserve his team's 3–1 lead. His neck was noticeably crooked as he collected his winner's medal; three days later an X-ray revealed it to be broken.

 

[PhoenixFire]

NZ hockey goalkeeper played the last 5 minutes of the 1976 Olympic final with a shattered kneecap. According to the fount of all knowledge Wikipedia "After taking a few moments to recover from the blow, he did two full squats, which proved to the New Zealand team management that he was ready to resume playing"

And in my own tough-guy story, I broke my hand in a game a couple of years ago and kept playing for another half hour.

Yeah, I've heard similar stories. I've played on after getting two black eyes and most people often play on after taking all of the skin of their knees, it's the done thing.