Pollard chooses Somerset over WI

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, storm/teacup.

 

[shivfan]

What a load of rubbish on this thread. All hot air and no substance. Pollard the most over-rated T20 cricketer? Really? What a load of rubbish, not even worthy of a reply.

Pollard accepted this contract for Somerset 'months' before the WICB selected him for the 'one day' segment of the tour. That's right, they didn't select a guy with one of the best FC averages of youngsters in the region for the 4 day stuff, instead choosing the likes of Fletcher and Fudadin.

If he had turned down the whole tour for the T20 stuff I could understand the negative reaction. He has turned down a few 50 over matches to play ion one of the biggest T20 tournaments in the World.

He has not even been given a retainer contract so I really don't see the problem. I am particularly surprised at Mike who is usually so conservative with these things.

Beamer, how could Pollard be taken on the main part of the A team tour when he refused to play any four-day games for Trinidad this season? He's done nothing to earn a place for that part of the tour, because he was busy playing 20/20 cricket in Australia.

There's no way Somerset could force him to choose the county over playing for the WI, even the A team. He's not a Kolpak.

All Pollard had to do is say to Somerset, I will just miss four of your 16 matches in order to improve my 50 overs skills. But he didn't do that. Instead, he wants to get as much money as possible from the 20/20 contract....

In effect, he's telling us that he's just a 20/20 specialist - simple!

 

[GraemeSmith]

Nothing wrong with this. If WI selectors want him so bad they should give him a contract. Esp considering he has better stats than some of the other players under a contract that certain posters brought up in this thread.

All Pollard had to do is say to Somerset, I will just miss four of your 16 matches in order to improve my 50 overs skills. But he didn't do that. Instead, he wants to get as much money as possible from the 20/20 contract....

You are just speculating, you have no idea what the details of his contract with Somerset are. Maybe there's a clause which voids his contract if he refuses to play for them even in a single game. He's only refusing to play one days for an A team, I don't understand your outrage.

 

[shivfan]

Nothing wrong with this. If WI selectors want him so bad they should give him a contract. Esp considering he has better stats than some of the other players under a contract that certain posters brought up in this thread.



You are just speculating, you have no idea what the details of his contract with Somerset are. Maybe there's a clause which voids his contract if he refuses to play for them even in a single game. He's only refusing to play one days for an A team, I don't understand your outrage.

I'm annoyed, because Pollard chooses to play for Somerset over the West Indies....

Sure, the WICB erred in not giving him a central contract, but even central contracts are a recent thing, over the past two years. Lloyd, Richards and Holding never had central contracts, and they would never choose a county over playing for the WIndies.

Sure, I don't have anything definite, but this story makes for interesting reading....

Cricketworld.com | Kieron Pollard Signs For Somerset

"Kieron showed himself to be the sort of player who can change a game in a very short period of time. He played consistently well and produced some amazing shots. Over the course of 16 games in our own Twenty20 competition he is guaranteed to have a huge influence. It's possible he might miss the first one, but after that we believe he will be available for every fixture."

Hardly sounds definite, does it? Not the kind of statement that Somerset would make if they had Pollard tied up to a definite us-and-not-WI kind of contract. Also, I find it telling that this announcement came out in January, before the WICB announced their squads for the home Test and ODI series against South Africa, and their A teams. So, it's clear that Pollard signed this contract, committing himself to Somerset, not caring what plans the WICB had for him.

I think that reveals quite a lot about Pollard's role in this saga....

 

[Sir Alex]

I'm annoyed, because Pollard chooses to play for Somerset over the West Indies....

Sure, the WICB erred in not giving him a central contract, but even central contracts are a recent thing, over the past two years. Lloyd, Richards and Holding never had central contracts, and they would never choose a county over playing for the WIndies.

The same guys who opted for Packer Cricket?

 

[shivfan]

You'll notice I said 'county'....

The Packer crisis had other issues, and surely you know that. In those days, the WICB dropped Desmond Haynes because he'd signed for Packer, and the others pulled out of the team in solidarity with Haynes.

in this case, Pollard could easily play 12 games for Somerset, and take part in a two-week tour with the A team. Instead, he wants to play all 16 games for Somerset, maximise his earnings, and to hell with the A team. If you can't see the difference, then I can't help you!

Otis Gibson has outlined a programme to improve Pollard as an ODI player, and Pollard has thrown that plan back at him. Quite simply, all we need is for Pollard to be honest, and to come out and say it: "I want to be a 20/20 specialist".

Once he's honest, then I can live with Pollard just being in the WI 20/20 team, and forget the facade of trying to improve Pollard as a 50-overs player....

 

[Sir Alex]

You'll notice I said 'county'....

The Packer crisis had other issues, and surely you know that. In those days, the WICB dropped Desmond Haynes because he'd signed for Packer, and the others pulled out of the team in solidarity with Haynes.

in this case, Pollard could easily play 12 games for Somerset, and take part in a two-week tour with the A team. Instead, he wants to play all 16 games for Somerset, maximise his earnings, and to hell with the A team. If you can't see the difference, then I can't help you!

Otis Gibson has outlined a programme to improve Pollard as an ODI player, and Pollard has thrown that plan back at him. Quite simply, all we need is for Pollard to be honest, and to come out and say it: "I want to be a 20/20 specialist".

Once he's honest, then I can live with Pollard just being in the WI 20/20 team, and forget the facade of trying to improve Pollard as a 50-overs player....

All of above 3 you quoted were playing WSC when the official WI team got defeated in India in 1978-79. So the argument that they are paragons of virtue is being blind to history.

Pollard has nothing to "learn" more by being part of an A team (not even the national team) than being part of Somerset county team, considering both are in England and considering in both cases he'd be playing only in onedays/t20s. He is not contracted by West Indies Board, had contracted with Somerset earlier, and counties' allowance for overseas players are only for representing national teams afaic.

If you think participating in 5 onedays against B grade teams can help him go a long way as a One Day player then I've really nothing to say.

 

[marc71178]

Out of interest, when exactly was the WI A team tour announced - I can't remember and a quick google failed me.

 

[shivfan]

All of above 3 you quoted were playing WSC when the official WI team got defeated in India in 1978-79. So the argument that they are paragons of virtue is being blind to history.

Pollard has nothing to "learn" more by being part of an A team (not even the national team) than being part of Somerset county team, considering both are in England and considering in both cases he'd be playing only in onedays/t20s. He is not contracted by West Indies Board, had contracted with Somerset earlier, and counties' allowance for overseas players are only for representing national teams afaic.

If you think participating in 5 onedays against B grade teams can help him go a long way as a One Day player then I've really nothing to say.

Of course that trio were in WSC at the time, but they were also playing for the WI, until the WICB unjustifiably dropped Haynes on some wishy-washy pretext....

it's ridiculous to say that Pollard will learn how to build an innings by coming in with four overs to spare playing 20/20 cricket for Somerset. that is his problem in ODIs, and he would have a much better chance of learning how to do that in 50-overs cricket against the likes of Ireland, India A and the England Lions. In fact, it can be argued that the bowling attacks from India A and the England Lions will be superior to most domestic Caribbean bowling attack. Furthermore, he would be learning to build an ODI innings in English conditions, which is an invaluable experience.

There's a historical precedent you guys are missing, from the story I posted in the OP:

"The clash between West Indies A duty and his Somerset stint isn't the first time Pollard's Twenty20 career has been at loggerheads with his international duties. There was talk of him suing the WICB for loss of earnings after he was called up to face Zimbabwe making him to miss Mumbai's opening IPL match in March. However, Cricinfo understands that the legal threat has now been dropped although the increasing tensions between player and board seem unlikely to disappear any time soon."

So, Pollard was prepared to sue the WICB for calling him up to the West Indies main ODI side, to play against Zimbabwe, because they were denying him the opportunity to maximise his earnings for Mumbai in the IPL. Doesn't that tell you something about Pollard?

To me, it's clear Pollard wants to be a 20/20 specialist, and it doesn't matter to him who he plays for. I'm fine with that, but only so long as he comes out and is honest about it....

 

[shivfan]

Out of interest, when exactly was the WI A team tour announced - I can't remember and a quick google failed me.

The one to go to England was announced a couple of weeks ago....

So, isn't it interesting how Pollard could be so quick to commit his future to Somerset without even consulting the WICB when he signed the contract with the English county back in January? No board announces an A team squad so far in advance of a summer tour....

Pollard had no intention of playing for the WI while he was earning big bucks playing for Somerset.

 

[Sir Alex]

Of course that trio were in WSC at the time, but they were also playing for the WI, until the WICB unjustifiably dropped Haynes on some wishy-washy pretext....

Is there really something wrong with my English?

I was trying to say while Viv, Holding Lloyd etc were playing in a World Series Game (Dec-Jan 1978-79), the official West Indies team was touring India without them at the SAME TIME. I don't think dropping of Haynes has anything to do with it. You must be mistaking that with the mid way boycott of the previous tour (ie in March 1978 vs Australia).

it's ridiculous to say that Pollard will learn how to build an innings by coming in with four overs to spare playing 20/20 cricket for Somerset. that is his problem in ODIs, and he would have a much better chance of learning how to do that in 50-overs cricket against the likes of Ireland, India A and the England Lions. In fact, it can be argued that the bowling attacks from India A and the England Lions will be superior to most domestic Caribbean bowling attack. Furthermore, he would be learning to build an ODI innings in English conditions, which is an invaluable experience.

There's a historical precedent you guys are missing, from the story I posted in the OP:

"The clash between West Indies A duty and his Somerset stint isn't the first time Pollard's Twenty20 career has been at loggerheads with his international duties. There was talk of him suing the WICB for loss of earnings after he was called up to face Zimbabwe making him to miss Mumbai's opening IPL match in March. However, Cricinfo understands that the legal threat has now been dropped although the increasing tensions between player and board seem unlikely to disappear any time soon."

So, Pollard was prepared to sue the WICB for calling him up to the West Indies main ODI side, to play against Zimbabwe, because they were denying him the opportunity to maximise his earnings for Mumbai in the IPL. Doesn't that tell you something about Pollard?

To me, it's clear Pollard wants to be a 20/20 specialist, and it doesn't matter to him who he plays for. I'm fine with that, but only so long as he comes out and is honest about it....

1. I never said a stint in Somerset would add considerably to his skill set. I merely said the benefits from featuring in the A team does not outweigh benefits from his stint at Somerset.

2. What has Windies domestic attacks got to do in this case? If he plays for Somerset he will be facing much better bowling attacks imho than the Indian, Irish and diluted English lions attacks.

3. The precedent you said is invalid because iirc Pollard indeed feature in all the Zim ODIs. He is within his right to protest at loss of earnings, but eventually he honored his commitment to the WI national team. The difference here is this is just an A team, and I am quite sure this wouldn't be the case had it been WI national team.

 

[marc71178]

I meant when was the fact the tour was going ahead announced - I appreciate the squad is only going to named a few weeks in advance of the trip.

 

[shivfan]

Is there really something wrong with my English?

I was trying to say while Viv, Holding Lloyd etc were playing in a World Series Game (Dec-Jan 1978-79), the official West Indies team was touring India without them at the SAME TIME. I don't think dropping of Haynes has anything to do with it. You must be mistaking that with the mid way boycott of the previous tour (ie in March 1978 vs Australia).

Well, obviously, the two are related. Bad blood was created by the way the WICB mishandled the dropping of Haynes. As a result of Packer's intervention, pay for cricketers in the Caribbean and elsewhere improved significantly, so they were no longer the poor cousins of world sport. And quite a lot of good came out of the Packer series. The West Indians returned to the side a more professional outfit, and they brought Dennis Waight with them....

But this is not about WSC. This is about Pollard and the West Indies....

 

[shivfan]

1. I never said a stint in Somerset would add considerably to his skill set. I merely said the benefits from featuring in the A team does not outweigh benefits from his stint at Somerset.

2. What has Windies domestic attacks got to do in this case? If he plays for Somerset he will be facing much better bowling attacks imho than the Indian, Irish and diluted English lions attacks.

3. The precedent you said is invalid because iirc Pollard indeed feature in all the Zim ODIs. He is within his right to protest at loss of earnings, but eventually he honored his commitment to the WI national team. The difference here is this is just an A team, and I am quite sure this wouldn't be the case had it been WI national team.

1) It all depends on whether you consider Pollard to be a 20/20 specialist or more than that. Up until recently, I thought (erroneously, it seems) that Pollard wanted to be taken seriously in 50-overs cricket or even Tests. The best way for him to do that would be to start by playing six one-dayers for the A team against the likes of Ireland, India A and the Lions.

2) Playing 20/20 cricket for Somerset will NOT improve him as a 50-overs player. Coming in with four overs to play, and swinging the bat around is no preparation for building an innings.

3) Pollard's performances in ODI cricket is abysmal. Check his stats. He no longer warrants an automatic place in the WI ODI side. This was an opportunity for him to regain his place, and he spurned it.

Importantly, this is the West Indies team, not the Kieron Pollard Accommodation Society. Pollard chooses to miss the entire domestic four-day competition earlier this season, because he's playing 20/20 cricket in Australia. Now, he chooses to miss the A team tour because he's playing 20/20 cricket for Somerset. Clearly, he seems to want to be considered a 20/20 specialist.

Now, I don't have a problem with that, so long as he comes out and says so. But he's been misleading Otis Gibson into thinking that he's serious about other forms of the game, when, apparently, he's not. We need more honesty from Pollard about what he wants to be. If it's a 20/20 specialist, like Dave Warner, then that's fine. At least, then we know where we stand with him....

 

[Sir Alex]

Well, obviously, the two are related. Bad blood was created by the way the WICB mishandled the dropping of Haynes. As a result of Packer's intervention, pay for cricketers in the Caribbean and elsewhere improved significantly, so they were no longer the poor cousins of world sport. And quite a lot of good came out of the Packer series. The West Indians returned to the side a more professional outfit, and they brought Dennis Waight with them....

But this is not about WSC. This is about Pollard and the West Indies....

Haha carry on. I just had problems with double standards when you were screaming Pollard was doing something which Richards, Lloyd, Holding etc wouldn't do which is not the case. I hope you'd be aware the reasons for the face off were also a result of WSC contracted players' unwillingness to commit to the tour of India later that year.

 

[Sir Alex]

1) It all depends on whether you consider Pollard to be a 20/20 specialist or more than that. Up until recently, I thought (erroneously, it seems) that Pollard wanted to be taken seriously in 50-overs cricket or even Tests. The best way for him to do that would be to start by playing six one-dayers for the A team against the likes of Ireland, India A and the Lions.

2) Playing 20/20 cricket for Somerset will NOT improve him as a 50-overs player. Coming in with four overs to play, and swinging the bat around is no preparation for building an innings.

3) Pollard's performances in ODI cricket is abysmal. Check his stats. He no longer warrants an automatic place in the WI ODI side. This was an opportunity for him to regain his place, and he spurned it.

Importantly, this is the West Indies team, not the Kieron Pollard Accommodation Society. Pollard chooses to miss the entire domestic four-day competition earlier this season, because he's playing 20/20 cricket in Australia. Now, he chooses to miss the A team tour because he's playing 20/20 cricket for Somerset. Clearly, he seems to want to be considered a 20/20 specialist.

Now, I don't have a problem with that, so long as he comes out and says so. But he's been misleading Otis Gibson into thinking that he's serious about other forms of the game, when, apparently, he's not. We need more honesty from Pollard about what he wants to be. If it's a 20/20 specialist, like Dave Warner, then that's fine. At least, then we know where we stand with him....

1. Pollard has already played 30 ODIs so he's hardly a rookie isnt he? We have a fair idea of how good (or bad) he can be and I am not exactly sure what positives can playing in the A team against B or C grade bowlers can bring in him. It literally proves nothing more than the status quo.

2. Of course not! Who said it will?

3. He isn't as terrible as his record would suggest considering how lower the order he comes. Also his bowling record is pretty good in fact to warrant him a place regardless of in actuality how dire it is. For these A games also he'd be coming down the order, make a quick 50 and that we know he is capable of already against even top sides.

See, Pollard is an individual. If he has made up his mind as to which version he want to specialise in, why bother to try and make him do things which he doesn't like? He is not contracted so anyway he is not legally obliged to do whatever WICB asks him to do (and to his credit he hasn't shied away from any international games in the name of other commitments so far) I am not sure if the coach has some grandeur illusions of him becoming a priceless cricketer in other formats, and if he has, that's his problem, not Pollard's.

 

[shivfan]

Pollard isn't terrible as an ODI player? Really? That's not what his recent record with the bat suggests....

Vs Zimbabwe
Five matches, total of 87 runs @ average of 17.
Vs South Africa
Five matches, totaly of 134 runs @ average of 27.

After performances like that, he deserves to be dropped from the ODI side. The A team tour was a chance for him to regain his place, but he clearly feels that 20/20 cricket with Somerset is more important. If that's the case, he should only be treated as a 20/20 cricketer by the WI selectors from now on, until he decides to take the longer formats more seriously....

Now, I would have no problem with him being selected only for 20/20 teams for the Windies, in much the same way Australia treat Dave Warner. What I don't like is Pollard's dishonesty, when he claims to be interested in doing well in the longer forms of the game. He owes Otis Gibson at least that honesty, so that Gibson can look elsewhere while Pollard continues to rake in as much money as possible as a 20/20 specialist.

The question is, do we give a central contract to a 20/20 specialist? Probably not....

 

[roseboy64]

No problem with this. Bit of a messup though. He's named in every limited overs squad yet not given a central contract. So he'd be right to assume that's all they wanted out of him so he'd be free after the South Africa games to do whatever he wanted.

 

[Debris]

No great loss to the WI

 

[91Jmay]

Considering how bad he is according to some of you, he played pretty well for Somerset the other day. 89 off 45 balls, nearly hit the ball over the Lords pavillion.

Not bad for most overrated T20 player in the world.