*Official* South Africa in West Indies

[dravid&kallis]

Having looked at the Windies bowling line up during the ODIs it will take a mighty effort from them to get SA wkts on flat tracks. SA will enjoy facing non-turning spinners like Benn and Miller. Unless Roach does something dramatic upfront I don't see the Windies challenging the Proteas.

While in the batting WI may compete, SA's bowling is superior to the Windies as is their batting(Please play Prince in the middle instead of Duminy).

1.Smith
2.Peterson
3.Amla
4.Kallis
5.Prince
6.DeVilliers
7.M.Morkel
8.Steyn
9.Parnell
10.Harris/Botha
11.Boucher(WK)

It will be a BIG UPSET if WI manage to win a test. But who knows in 2001 the scoreline was 2-1 to SA in a series of 5 tests and in 2005 it was 2-0 in 4 tests. So if previous WI teams have competed against SA there is no reason why this team can't do the same.

 

[TT Boy]

Having looked at the Windies bowling line up during the ODIs it will take a mighty effort from them to get SA wkts on flat tracks. SA will enjoy facing non-turning spinners like Benn and Miller. Unless Roach does something dramatic upfront I don't see the Windies challenging the Proteas.

While in the batting WI may compete, SA's bowling is superior to the Windies as is their batting(Please play Prince in the middle instead of Duminy).

1.Smith
2.Peterson
3.Amla
4.Kallis
5.Prince
6.DeVilliers
7.M.Morkel
8.Steyn
9.Parnell
10.Harris/Botha
11.Boucher(WK)

It will be a BIG UPSET if WI manage to win a test. But who knows in 2001 the scoreline was 2-1 to SA in a series of 5 tests and in 2005 it was 2-0 in 4 tests. So if previous WI teams have competed against SA there is no reason why this team can't do the same.

Parnell is still a big doubt for the test series. May see Ntini recalled as I don't think they (South African hierarchy) are that big on Lopsy.

 

[popepouri]

Parnell is still a big doubt for the test series. May see Ntini recalled as I don't think they (South African hierarchy) are that big on Lopsy.

He's on fire in England. Wouldn't be surprised if it happened especially since he's done well in the Caribbean in the past.

 

[TT Boy]

Yeah, it would make sense and gives Ntini the perfect chance to get the 400 and go out in style.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Those wickets than Imran took was in the one-dayers, which we really shouldn't use to decide on Test selection. The more important matches are the unofficial Tests, so yes, I think Imran needs another tour to stake his claim, i.e. England. To me, it's between Shilly and Brown....

I'm sorry, I don't care who the captain is - it could be Bravo, Ganga, Sarwan, whoever - Benn's behaviour is totally unacceptable. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks of the level of leadership Gayle is providing. He hardly ever berates players on the field, unlike Lara or Adams, so that reaction by Benn was doubly unacceptable.

You're quite obviously missing something, Windie. If the captain tells you to bowl over the wicket, he has a plan in mind, and you're working towards it. If you don't want to be a part of that plan, get out of the team - simple! Any player who has no intention of following his captain's plan should never be a part of any team in the future....

We need spinners who're prepared to bowl to a captain's plan. Benn is clearly not one of them....

Incase you haven't noticed Mike the guy has been calling out players left, right and centre recently, he publically dissed both Ramdin and Smith during the Zimbabwe series and now this incident has happened with Benn, how many more players are gonna recieve his wrath before HIS position is under question? i'm not saying what Benn done was right but if the guy doesn't like bowling over the wicket then that's just the way it is, he's been fined and now the issue is done, i'd expect him to be lining up in the Test side now alongside Shilly, there's no point cutting off our nose to spite our face, he can be a match winner for us when he's in the mood.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Having looked at the Windies bowling line up during the ODIs it will take a mighty effort from them to get SA wkts on flat tracks. SA will enjoy facing non-turning spinners like Benn and Miller. Unless Roach does something dramatic upfront I don't see the Windies challenging the Proteas.

While in the batting WI may compete, SA's bowling is superior to the Windies as is their batting(Please play Prince in the middle instead of Duminy).

1.Smith
2.Peterson
3.Amla
4.Kallis
5.Prince
6.DeVilliers
7.M.Morkel
8.Steyn
9.Parnell
10.Harris/Botha
11.Boucher(WK)

It will be a BIG UPSET if WI manage to win a test. But who knows in 2001 the scoreline was 2-1 to SA in a series of 5 tests and in 2005 it was 2-0 in 4 tests. So if previous WI teams have competed against SA there is no reason why this team can't do the same.

The Trinidad pitches are extremely spin friendly which is to our advantage so i wouldn't go betting on a whitewash if i was you!! .

 

[shivfan]

Incase you haven't noticed Mike the guy has been calling out players left, right and centre recently, he publically dissed both Ramdin and Smith during the Zimbabwe series and now this incident has happened with Benn, how many more players are gonna recieve his wreath before HIS position is under question? i'm not saying what Benn done was right but if the guy doesn't like bowling over the wicket then that's just the way it is, he's been fined and now the issue is done, i'd expect him to be lining up in the Test side now alongside Shilly, there's no point cutting off our nose to spite our face, he can be a match winner for us when he's in the mood.

The two issues are totally different....

1) Benn was out of order to refuse to follow his captain's instructions, and he was rightly fined his entire match fee. It's good to see that he's accepted his punishment, and he's very lucky to still be in the ODI squad, IMHO. I hope he's under probation. It doesn't matter which way he likes to bowl around or over the wicket, but in future, I would expect that when Gayle asks him to do something, he does it. The ball is solely in Benn's court now. He needs to show respect for his captain, whoever he is.

2) Gayle was right to criticise both Smith and Ramdin, as well as Pollard, during the ODIs against Zimbabwe. Ramdin and Pollard put their heads down, and worked on their games. Smith showed dissent, and as Gibson himself pointed out, Smith's behaviour left a lot to be desired, so he hasn't been selected since.

3) Gayle, as captain of a losing side, will naturally come under pressure if the WI lose badly in the Test series too. And rightly so, IMHO. But that does not mean that indiscipline within the team should be tolerated under any circumstances.

It does seem that Gibson is clamping down on indiscipline, and that has apparently affected the selection of Simmons and Smith, and may just result in Benn being shunted aside for the likes of Shilly and Brown.

 

[shivfan]

He's on fire in England. Wouldn't be surprised if it happened especially since he's done well in the Caribbean in the past.

Oh jeez, I hope they don't call up Ntini....

he always gives our batsmen trouble. Please call up deWet instead!

 

[Briony]

Oh jeez, I hope they don't call up Ntini....

he always gives our batsmen trouble. Please call up deWet instead!

de Wet has a back injury. Will they look at the likes of Theron?

 

[popepouri]

de Wet has a back injury. Will they look at the likes of Theron?

I doubt it. He didn't even make the ODI squad.

 

[Xuhaib]

Nitini on windies pitches these days will be cannon fodder.

 

[WindieWeathers]

The two issues are totally different....

1) Benn was out of order to refuse to follow his captain's instructions, and he was rightly fined his entire match fee. It's good to see that he's accepted his punishment, and he's very lucky to still be in the ODI squad, IMHO. I hope he's under probation. It doesn't matter which way he likes to bowl around or over the wicket, but in future, I would expect that when Gayle asks him to do something, he does it. The ball is solely in Benn's court now. He needs to show respect for his captain, whoever he is.

2) Gayle was right to criticise both Smith and Ramdin, as well as Pollard, during the ODIs against Zimbabwe. Ramdin and Pollard put their heads down, and worked on their games. Smith showed dissent, and as Gibson himself pointed out, Smith's behaviour left a lot to be desired, so he hasn't been selected since.

3) Gayle, as captain of a losing side, will naturally come under pressure if the WI lose badly in the Test series too. And rightly so, IMHO. But that does not mean that indiscipline within the team should be tolerated under any circumstances.

It does seem that Gibson is clamping down on indiscipline, and that has apparently affected the selection of Simmons and Smith, and may just result in Benn being shunted aside for the likes of Shilly and Brown.

I think my examples were spot on tbh, if a man fails to lead his troops competently he's gonna be more vulnerable to players showing him dissent imo, Gayle right now is all mouth and no action so it comes as no surprise that something kicked off again involving him,

Benn has been punished and that should be the end of the matter, he's needed for the Tests and i expect him to perform well alongside Shillingford.

 

[shivfan]

I think my examples were spot on tbh, if a man fails to lead his troops competently he's gonna be more vulnerable to players showing him dissent imo, Gayle right now is all mouth and no action so it comes as no surprise that something kicked off again involving him,

Benn has been punished and that should be the end of the matter, he's needed for the Tests and i expect him to perform well alongside Shillingford.

I disagree....

You will always have dissent if you have players in your team who are lacking in discipline. Have you heard about Roy Gilchrist, the scary WI fast bowler, who had to be sent home from a tour? And what about Viv Richards sending Richard Gabriel from the field in an ODI in Australia, replacing him with Gus Logie as sub fielder? And Richie Richardson, who was forced to send Winston Benjamin home from a tour of England?

There is no excuse for countering an instruction by the captain, whoever he is, and Benn was rightly fined the full match fee. I hope he has learnt from that experience, and doesn't repeat his show of indiscipline. Unfortunately, where Benn is concerned, we're becoming a bit too used to shows of indiscipline from him....

 

[WindieWeathers]

I disagree....

You will always have dissent if you have players in your team who are lacking in discipline. Have you heard about Roy Gilchrist, the scary WI fast bowler, who had to be sent home from a tour? And what about Viv Richards sending Richard Gabriel from the field in an ODI in Australia, replacing him with Gus Logie as sub fielder? And Richie Richardson, who was forced to send Winston Benjamin home from a tour of England?

There is no excuse for countering an instruction by the captain, whoever he is, and Benn was rightly fined the full match fee. I hope he has learnt from that experience, and doesn't repeat his show of indiscipline. Unfortunately, where Benn is concerned, we're becoming a bit too used to shows of indiscipline from him....

When you consider that Gayle has been in the wars ever since Gibbo arrived sometimes you have to question why it's always HIM involved rather than just give him a pass because "he's the captain", clearly he's rubbed some people the wrong way, if you include his odd behaviour towards Sammy at times that's FIVE teammates he's had a problem with lately, no matter how you dress it up Mike that's not healthy for team spirit.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Going to the match tomorrow. With the likelihood of rain factoring in Trinidad these days, and the likelihood of WI being rubbish, I'm hoping against hope for a full day of cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

There is no excuse for countering an instruction by the captain, whoever he is, and Benn was rightly fined the full match fee. I hope he has learnt from that experience, and doesn't repeat his show of indiscipline. Unfortunately, where Benn is concerned, we're becoming a bit too used to shows of indiscipline from him....

Well there is an excuse for SOME INSTRUCTIONS, if you catch my drift...
Anyway, from what Gayle said, he refused to bowl over the wicket because he didn't know how to, or something so. He's a specialist bowler so that's absolutely ridiculous. His attitude usually irks me, but this tips the scale a bit.

 

[shivfan]

When you consider that Gayle has been in the wars ever since Gibbo arrived sometimes you have to question why it's always HIM involved rather than just give him a pass because "he's the captain", clearly he's rubbed some people the wrong way, if you include his odd behaviour towards Sammy at times that's FIVE teammates he's had a problem with lately, no matter how you dress it up Mike that's not healthy for team spirit.

Well, Gibson supports Gayle's actions, and the coach says the majority of the players do....

'Players backing outspoken Gayle' - Gibson | Cricket News | West Indies v South Africa 2010 | Cricinfo.com

"The skipper is his own man and he has spoken out. Normally he is a very quiet person but his frustration is causing him to come out and the players understand this," Gibson told reporters in Trinidad. "We met and the guys think that probably it is time that things come out and maybe it would lead to betterment. The skipper thought that he was not getting the support he needed from a player who was not giving 100 percent and he spoke out."

I don't know if you've noticed, but ever since the days of Richie Richardson, the West Indies stopped being disciplined, stopped training hard, etc. Has it occurred to you that Gibson is trying to change that, and that players like Benn, Simmons and Smith are suffering because of that? In all three cases, Gibson has backed Gayle, and so have the majority of the current players, including Sammy. The fact that Sammy is in the ODI side in spite of their alleged differences is surely a sign that Gibson is keen to have players who have a better attitude in the team, as opposed to players who're indisciplined.

I don't know about you, but these actions against the likes of Benn, Simmons and Smith are starting to finally give me some confidence about the future....

 

[Johnners]

When you consider that Gayle has been in the wars ever since Gibbo arrived sometimes you have to question why it's always HIM involved rather than just give him a pass because "he's the captain", clearly he's rubbed some people the wrong way, if you include his odd behaviour towards Sammy at times that's FIVE teammates he's had a problem with lately, no matter how you dress it up Mike that's not healthy for team spirit.

I would have thought it obvious that if there's problems in the dressing room, the captain is most likely always going to be involved, even if the problem isn't directly with him. If it takes a public shellacking from the captain to get his players into gear, then so be it. It's my understanding that he was justified in his criticisms of Smith/Pollard/Ramdin too, and if it is true that Pollard/Ramdin have picked up their act because of it, how is it a bad thing (if nothing else, it justifies his actions...)? And aren't the Windies better off having Smith on the outer if he's a problem player who is unable to get on with the captain (who is also a comfortably a better player above all else) and the coach is also critical of his behaviour?

As for the latest incident, given that Benn himself has anything but a clean record behavior wise (Gayle or no Gayle) it seems more than anything that it is you trying to dress up Gayle as the villain, when looking at it from a neutral POV it most certainly is not the case.

 

[Sir Alex]

When you consider that Gayle has been in the wars ever since Gibbo arrived sometimes you have to question why it's always HIM involved rather than just give him a pass because "he's the captain", clearly he's rubbed some people the wrong way, if you include his odd behaviour towards Sammy at times that's FIVE teammates he's had a problem with lately, no matter how you dress it up Mike that's not healthy for team spirit.

Keep such stuff in the dressing room. Once you agree to step on the field, you also agree to obey and respect the captaincy of the other person regardless of personal differences you have outside it. That's called team spirit. There is no such thing as a perfect captain, everyone will have their differences.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Well, Gibson supports Gayle's actions, and the coach says the majority of the players do....

'Players backing outspoken Gayle' - Gibson | Cricket News | West Indies v South Africa 2010 | Cricinfo.com

"The skipper is his own man and he has spoken out. Normally he is a very quiet person but his frustration is causing him to come out and the players understand this," Gibson told reporters in Trinidad. "We met and the guys think that probably it is time that things come out and maybe it would lead to betterment. The skipper thought that he was not getting the support he needed from a player who was not giving 100 percent and he spoke out."

I don't know if you've noticed, but ever since the days of Richie Richardson, the West Indies stopped being disciplined, stopped training hard, etc. Has it occurred to you that Gibson is trying to change that, and that players like Benn, Simmons and Smith are suffering because of that? In all three cases, Gibson has backed Gayle, and so have the majority of the current players, including Sammy. The fact that Sammy is in the ODI side in spite of their alleged differences is surely a sign that Gibson is keen to have players who have a better attitude in the team, as opposed to players who're indisciplined.

I don't know about you, but these actions against the likes of Benn, Simmons and Smith are starting to finally give me some confidence about the future....

Gibbo also said Benn and Gayle "are the best of friends" Mike!! , and lets be honest he's hardly gonna criticize his captain in public right now is he? especially after he bigged up Gayle so much when he first arrived.